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I mean at this point why stick with Microsoft? I get needing a particular software only able to run in windows but other than that there’s really no need.
I'm disabled (one usable hand, among other things). I need my mouse software to be able to map buttons to keys on my keyboard (and it must have individual profiles per application, and it must auto switch based on the active window) for me to be able to play shooters and similar.
I have tried many times in the past 20 years to switch, but I always had to come back. I installed bazzite to help a friend transition from w10, and to be able to talk them through any issues they might come across. I used this opportunity to again see how doable it would be, temporary dual booting.
In addition to the mouse, I don't use my mobos onboard audio, instead using two creative sound blaster cards - one for my surround sound (main output), and the other for voice chat or if I have to be quiet (late night gaming). The drivers for both cards fail - L/R channels work as expected, but RL/RR/FC/Sub are wrong. I tried for two days to fix it, overriding settings, trying different settings in the UI, different overrides, switch cards around to see if they work correctly when outputting to the other hardware... And searching online, this has been a problem for years, maybe a decade+ across many distros. Okay, so, it's not a 'fix' but what if we get new sound cards... Asus has some.... Aaaaand survey says they are shit in Linux too. What about looking for some Linux specific hardware? The only company I found had cards for $1k+, and geared more towards audio creation. Hell no, you'd have to be insane.
That's a hard stop, as I'm not about to give up my audio system because of botched drivers thst are seemingly never getting a fix. But similarly, I have a ThinkPad with a 5G modem in it. I tried a dozen distros before begrudgingly settling on Kubuntu, as it was the only system that would actually work (see the modem, interact with it, fcc unlock after terminal commands, and actually transfer data).
Linux has this bubble of users who are the typical norm - they need the basics, and nothing more. Which is fine, I'm happy for them, but damn does the experience suck shit if you aren't in that bubble. I remember the days when I'd have to wrap windows wifi drivers to get online, or sleep wouldn't work, or an update would brick the system (or grub, oh fuck me I'm having ptsd flashbacks), or even stuff like stereo in and out would be broken out of the box. And there often wasn't a guide to fix this shit, it was just 'have fun'. It has come a good way, but there is so much that still needs work.
And, as my friend found out, while all his games were native or compatable via proton or lutris, some needed to be built from source... Even though the fucking dev offers executables for windows, and could easily do the same for Debian-based systems, ready to go for those users... But no, here are some half-assed instructions that are out of date, glhf. Ugh...
There's a ton of other things, but those are recent - like, within the last 3-6 months recent, and are real world examples of why some have to stay chained to windows.
Now if anyone wants to patch the shitty drivers for my sound blasters, I could actually try to maintain and actually use the install. But until then, I've got to use what actually works.
Fair point! In the end, everyone needs to use what works best for them. I do concede that I’m not really familiar with accessibility issues and I perceive the accessibility options to be lacking in the distros I know. Maybe it will change in the future and I hope it does :) thank you for your contribution!
You just claimed it's not possible to have working sound on Linux even if buying new hardware. This is... False. To say the least.
...no? I said I searched for sound cards that are made by other companies, like Asus, but they too have similar problems. And then I looked up if there are any manufacturers that claim to support Linux, of which I only found one, and who charged an absurd amount of money since their target market is creators, not consumers.
Like, I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion, but it was wholly on your own.
So I reached the wrong conclusion, but you did a lot of research and found no one who made a sound card that can reliably work on Linux except one overpriced company.
This is what you yourself reiterated. Not sure where the disconnect is.
My onboard sound works fine. Purchased the hardware years before deciding to even try Linux. You are trying to make one specific scenario out to be the norm but it's clearly not.
In my initial comment, I state that my situation isn't typical, and that I'm outside the bubble of typical hardware and use case. I state why I use two sound cards. I state what is wrong with the drivers, my attempts to resolve it, my search for alternative hardware, and why falling back to a more basic setup in unacceptable.
I'm not 'making a specific scenario', this is my main machine I use daily. You are literally proving my point, about the 'bubble' of users that use basic hardware and think everything is fine, but those who use things that aren't common hit snags and issues. And then you want to blame me for using hardware that I've used for years? Are you actually kidding me?
I am blaming you for claiming one literally cannot find sound hardware that works on Linux. It is a false statement. You can say whatever you want about "support" and pretend that is a standard to measure by but the actual truth you intend to obscure is that for nearly any sound hardware, it will work without any effort or attention paid whatsoever. It doesn't matter in the least what companies claim to support Linux. 99% chance it works fine for any given random hardware.
'I cannot find an add-on sound card that claims compatability with Linux at a reasonable cost' != 'everyone with a Linux machine doesn't have sound'.
Find me a pci sound card that can handle 5.1 channel audio over 3.5mm. I spent a couple hours several weeks ago and came up empty (excluding the aforementioned card for creators).
That's demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of how support works on Linux. You won't find many pieces of hardware that claim support and yet nearly all of it works with the OS, usually with little to zero effort. I can't be sure if you know this and pretend not to, or somehow missed it, but that's how it works.
Forum posts and my own experience say that cards from Creative Labs and Asus, which both work correctly under windows, fail to achieve correct output above 2.0 (2.1?). There are almost no other options for pci add-on sound cards, being a niche market for the last 15 years or so.
So, unless you can point me to a card that I can purchase today and that has either a manufacturer-backed statement of compatability, or there are current owners who own that card, this conversation is over. I've given you way too much of my time, misunderstanding and misinterpret what is a basic concept and statement, such that you are not acting in good faith. I'd be happy to find a card that fits my quite basic requirements, but everything that I came across myself had reports of issues, or dead-end forum posts where no solution was reached.
So, do you have a card for me or not?
I can say two things. The way you write here makes me dislike you.
If that was my problem to solve, I would.
Well, when you are approached by someone who doesn't read nor understand the conversation or arguments brought forth, who then argues with you regarding said topic and situations - in which you have personal experience with - and who reiterates the same argument that is based on flawed data and assumptions, causing you to stay up for several hours as you try and explain the situation and points, while you grow more and more frustrated (see all points ststed above)... and at the conclusion of the conversation, they have added no value nor insight to the original discussion which, again, they didn't fully understand... you let me know at what stage you'd be a bit frustrated.
Myself, I give people waaayyyyyyy too much credit, leeway, benefit of the doubt. Way too much. And most of the time, yeah, it's a misunderstanding, they appreciate the kindness, everyone is happy. But others, it's just malace, trying to harm me, break me.
I can be the nicest guy in the world, and people will still say I'm an asshole because they disagree with something, or they don't understand what my core statements are, or any other number of reasons. I used to be that way, nice to everyone all the time, even those who used me, exploited me, manipulated me. I stopped being a pushover after I suffered my stroke, effectively losing function of half my body. After that, nah, not anymore. I wasted my whole life up until that point kissing behinds and getting shit in return. I don't do that anymore.
I don't care if you dislike me. I don't care what you think about me in any capacity, frankly. It would all be wrong anyway, so why get worked up over it. But what I've learned in the twilight hours of this morning, is that all your aggravation pointed at me, isn't my fault. And that is so... relaxing. Comforting.
Anyway, I'm finally off to bed now. The sun is rising, and I'm exhausted.
I haven't made the switch away from Windows yet, but I hope to try in the near future. So I don't know if my suggestion is of any help to you. But I'm one of the other weirdos not using onboard sound. Is there a reason you need a PCI card specifically?
Most good options these days are external. I had an external sound blaster for years that I bought before learning that it was basically just a sound blaster branded external DAC. When I can, I want to replace it with either another external DAC from a proper audio manufacturer or a USB audio interface.
If you look for those instead of sound cards, you'll find a lot more options. I have no idea if that's useful to you or if any of them work in Linux, though. Well... some idea. I know somebody who I think is running Linux with his DAC, now that I think about it.
So, I hope that's helpful to you. Cheers :)
No actually requirement to remain on pci, other than not wanting to buy new hardware if I don't have to (money is tight too, being disabled and all) - I've been using pci sound blaster cards for 20 years now, and one of the current two has been in my box for nearly (maybe actually) 15 years now? The SB Z, and SB AE-5. There's also the slight preference of not having more stuff dangling out of the back of my box, but I could get over that I guess. I've never looked at USB solutions (or anything external really) so I don't know anything about them, other than they exist.
I'd also like to retain software settings (I guess hardware switches, if available as an alternative) if at all possible, which as far as I can tell, I cannot on the cards I currently have (SB software is windows-only). Since currently my use case is gaming + music on the one card, while voice chat on the other, that way I can get clear voices on my headset at a lower volume while my 5.1 gives me louder, positional game audio. Both speakers and headset are 3.5mm, as I know the SB cards work well, so (at purchase) I wanted the only thing altering the signal was the SB card itself, instead of using say a Logitech USB headset with its own independent controls or something, bypassing. I swear off wireless headsets for this reason.
It basically comes down to 'it's what I've always used' and 'don't fix what isn't broken', with a sprinkle of 'I don't trust anything else or know of what to look for' :P
Got suggestions on where to start looking/brands to check into?
Thanks ^_^
Yeah, I understand very well. My disability is different, but money is still tight and when my Sound Blaster died it was really annoying trying to find a way to replace it within my budget and without rearranging my whole setup. I'm new to audiophile stuff too so it's intimidating and a lot to learn.
For my use case, I look more into the USB audio interface side of things because I need to have an XLR input and a monitoring plug with zero latency. If you don't need anything like that, then a DAC or a DAC/amp combo is what you want. I'm not really an audiophile and this is getting into that area so I'm not the best person to explain it. Definitely take anything I say with a grain of salt and make sure you check. But I think you only really need the amp if it's required to drive your headphones. If you don't have high impedance headphones, then you should be able to skip the amp and just get any DAC that fits your needs.
There's a huge variety of brands, price points, and features. It's dipping your toe into the audiophile world so the rabbit hole is bottomless, but you can also find very good quality gear on a budget. FiiO, Topping, and Hifiman are brands I recognize, but there are plenty of others I don't which I'm sure would still be good. It's the kind of gear somebody buys and expects to still be working in ten years.
The one thing I personally would look for is I would avoid anything with an internal battery. That's why my Sound Blaster died. For whatever reason, they gave it an internal battery so you could unplug it and use it as a portable headphone amp. I never needed or wanted that, but the battery started expanding and died after over ten years, so that was the end. It's not a feature I care about, so I'm better off getting something without a battery.
For what it's worth, a quick search suggests any USB DAC should work fine in both Windows and Linux as long as it doesn't require special software. So if you look for an affordable USB DAC with physical buttons/dials and all the inputs and features you want, that should help narrow things down to start. You can definitely find one with multiple inputs for both the speakers and a headset, and possibly different volume settings. But I'm not sure - different settings for different inputs might also be more in the realm of a USB audio interface, which may not be as good of a fit for your situation. But you could always look: Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and Motu M2 2x2 are very strong contenders for me.
Also, at least in the US, Sweetwater is a reputable site for audio gear. I'm sure there are others, of course, but it's a start.
Good luck!
Yeah I saw you be hostile to someone for trying to show you empathy. Then you wrote a long bad faith argument claiming sound support for your case isn't a thing. So it's rich for you to blame others for the conversation not going well.
You can "miss me" with the "I'm such a good person and everyone who has an issue with me isn't" act which any fool can see through.
Ight you can't use your specific and statistically small example to label a majority of Linux users as just a bubble. It sucks what you're dealing with, but it'll only get fixed if more people switch to Linux and talk about.
Many such cases
I can - they asked for an example, I provided one. Most users don't need to use custom input controls, or aren't running a home theater system. They are in the bubble of 'typical', and they don't think about situations other than their own (why would they?), thus people like myself who don't fit in the bubble struggle.
Also do note the fact that my sound card issue has been a known issue through forum posts for basically a decade. Like sure, eventually sure, but it's been a decade now and my current experience matches that of years ago, so...
Also miss me with that fake sympathy. I've heard 'it's sucks what you're going through' or something very close to it, for yeaaaars now, and the inevitable 'but' just tells me 'that was a lie but I wanted to pretend to care'. Every time, always the same thing.
Hate to be that guy, since I only use Linux on personal machines, but I use windows at my current job. Why? Because the stuff I develop only has a windows version. Whilst it'd be possible to cross compile, it's just more friction, and it's easier to just develop on the target platform.
And let's be real, lots of people don't have the luxury of a choice in their jobs to begin with. So that's why. (and also why the strong need to vent, seeing as this is forced onto them)
Oh I also use windows on my work machine and not anywhere else. The enterprise version is not full of crap and doesn’t force AI down your throat.
Damn, I find it pretty bad already, can't imagine the pro or home versions being even worse.
If it is bad on your enterprise that is because someone isn't disabling it in the group policies.
It can be as bad as Home if you let it.
I'm gonna have a word with IT
Even the Pro version allows GPO to block all the AI crap. I upgraded my home PCs everytime because I run a small business that needs windows applications.
Lol that's only because your windows admins are constantly playing defense against MS always introducing new "features" in "minor" patches.
@TriangleSpecialist @SW42 use to be in a job like that, the reason was that the still works in a software that was made for windows, in delphi, and start from scratch to be cross platform was obviously not an option.. But any software started the develop today is easly cross platform...even the ones that arent... Well wine is making miracles this days
If you think your chosen OS doesn't have irritations of a similar magnitude either you're looking past them or they just don't irritate you.
My Linux laptop has a problem where, when unsuspended while docked, tends to lose the dock in such a way that the USB devices attached to it become unusable - even if they are then plugged in directly; the USB stack just gets completely broken until reboot. It's really annoying - but I put up with it, because there are other things about Linux I like. If I had switched from Windows to Linux because of a nag screen that I could just click to get rid of and this was what I got in return, I'd be back to Windows in a flash.
At this point I've been using Linux for multiple decades and would never go back. Not even if Windows became genuinely better. I mean, it has improved a lot since when I switched away, but I'm used to Linux now and it's comfortable.
And that's what people don't get: Windows, for most people, is comfortable. Comfortable and good enough. There are many reasons why it's not good enough for me, but most people don't share the mindset behind those reasons, so they don't apply to them.
So hopefully that explains "why stick with Microsoft".
Oh, I get that, it was more of a retro rival question because I read all those headlines about the shit Microsoft constantly tries to pull. I get comfortable and I’m sure there are some problems and growing pains but if you’re ready to get out of the comfort zone I think it is worth it.
I had the opposite issue where canon decided to stop supporting a scanner with incompatible drivers for windows 10. Linux and macOS were able to use it OOTB without me having to tinker with it. Swings and roundabouts I guess.
I’m not a lemming and am not shoving anything down anyone’s throat, but I guess people are apparently really triggered when someone merely brings it up.
I'm sure asbestos housing was also very comfortable until people started getting cancer.
Do you want to trim my hedge with that non-secuteur?
Lemmings are pissing me off with pushing Linux down my throat to the level of gaining hatred to Linux through mere correlation xD
Even though I planned on switching before that!
Hakuna matata :) no need to get riled up. Use what you want, I use Linux and macOS at home and windows at work.
Even if they aren't lying, if they're so much of a contrarian as to do the opposite of whatever they hear, they don't deserve Linux.
You're right, although cultish behaviour and straight up animosity towards non-linux users is tiring tho, that's all. Nice to see nicer comments here for a change ^^
Lying is bad.
Wholeheartedly agree ^^
illumos or maybe plan9front are good options if you have somewhat limited requirements
BSD?
I'm completely with you and I daily drive Linux. It's not just Lemmy, there is a vocal majority I've anecdotally seen that have this thing to push Linux onto everyone.
I used to be the same, until a friend I was pestering outright told me that it was ruining our friendship and Linux does not fit his needs, and it's not something he's open to.
Ever since, I've taken the approach of just never bringing it up and while I'll happily answer questions, I accept people still need Windows and aren't ready for such a sudden switch, because contrary to what that vocal majority says, it is a completely different environment for normies and takes a lot of mental energy and adjustment to get used to an entirely different system, even if the interface is near identical.
Side note: having this vocal majority seems to be a thing I've also seen in other vegans, surely there's a term coined for this phenomenon because it's certainly not limited to Linux users.