this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2025
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Self hosting helps make the internet more decentralized, but at the end of the day someone else owns that series of tubes.

This is probably a pipe dream, but I think it would be cool if we self hosted not just servers but networking infrastructure as well.

I have an extra class amateur radio license and one of the many niches within the ham radio hobby I'm interested in is packet radio and wireless mesh networking.

Packet radio could technically refer to any RF communication that uses packets, including wifi, but I mostly see it used to refer to the AX.25 protocol, which works like an old-school dial-up modem in that it converts data into audio tones that are transmitted using FM or single sideband radios built for voice communication. AX.25 is used mostly nowadays in Amateur Packet Reporting System (APRS) which is used to report location and status info. There's a website, aprs.fi, where you can track vehicles sending their location or weather stations reporting conditions and so on.

In the olden days there were tons of bulletin boards hosted over AX.25 all over the globe that you could reach either directly or through repeaters. There are a few hangers on, and I even hosted one for a while but nobody visited. You could by hardware terminal node controllers (TNCs) that had a BBS feature, and nowadays there are a few software TNCs available.

Several Wifi frequency bands overlap with ham bands, and various projects have arisen that modify commercial wifi gear to turn them into mesh nodes forming a wireless wide area network, operating under FCC part 97 rules rather than the unlicensed part 15 rules that they use out of the box. This allows higher power and channels otherwise off limits to wifi stations. The project I'm most familiar with is Amateur Radio Emergency Data Network (AREDN) which uses a fork of openWRT firmware. I've tried a couple times to get the other hams in my area interested in setting up a network, but it's slow going.

There are also ham-adjacent projects like Meshtastic that I'm not as familiar with.

This barely scratches the surface of what's out there. The ham bands are explicitly non commercial and there are limits on what you can transmit and how much bandwidth you can use, but I dream of a day when everyone's wifi router meshes with all the other routers in the neighborhood which is connected to all the other neighborhoods in the city which is connected via repeaters to all the other cities and so on. Sure it would be slow, but we'd be communicating on our own system that only costs as much as the hardware you run it on.

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[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

I’m subscribing to self hosted and following you. I don’t have the tech background to sign up to assist at this point, but I do see a world where this will be the only way to send messages digitally — something like what you have described.

The corporations in their consolidation will absolutely break the internet. We have to have community originated back ups of something.

[–] drkt@scribe.disroot.org 5 points 6 days ago
[–] sobchak@programming.dev 4 points 6 days ago

I've been going down this rabbit hole myself. Already set up a solar Meshtastic node and MeshCore repeater. Kinda cool, very low bandwidth and pretty unreliable though.

It's my understanding that encryption is illegal on amateur radio bands. I'm thinking about getting a license anyways; looks fun.

HaLow, BATMAN, Reticulum and stuff like that also look cool, but I haven't messed around with those yet.

I think radio will always have bandwidth/congestion problems. It's like everyone within range is using the same "wire."

I also like overlay networks like Tor and I2P, but it's possible those will eventually be blocked or made illegal in many countries, if governments keep heading in the direction they seem to be heading.

[–] lascapi@jlai.lu 3 points 6 days ago

Nice dream / project. 😊

[–] helix@feddit.org 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

There are also ham-adjacent projects like Meshtastic that I’m not as familiar with.

Why don't you buy a node and try it out?

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 4 points 6 days ago

You can build one for a few $.

[–] TX@fedia.io 3 points 6 days ago

There is a solution to own your own IPv6 address. It is called Yggdrasil network. Your address is derived from keypair you need to generate at the beginning. All traffic is end to end encrypted with that keypairs.

There is also decentralized alternative to DNS - Namecoin, DNS based on blockchain.

[–] SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 days ago

I read something awhile back about a project to make a community run internet via mesh network. In tuscon, I think

[–] helix@feddit.org 1 points 6 days ago

Why don't you simply build your own network aswell? https://dn42.net/

Packet radio has such a low bandwidth usually. You should get more out of directional Wi-Fi, as in 60GHz point to point connections. One downside: if it rains you're out of luck. You'd better run cables ;)

[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 0 points 6 days ago

I didn't read your entire post (sorry it was long 😅) but have you heard of lorawan? It's a low powered long distance mesh network technology. I believe that's what the helium project uses.

https://www.helium.com/

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 55 points 1 week ago (3 children)

It would already help if apartment buildings had an internal network with a single connection point, but I can tell you as someone who worked on this as a volunteer for student dormitories back in the day that ISPs are extremely hostile to the idea.

[–] lka1988@sh.itjust.works 6 points 6 days ago (2 children)

No thanks, double-NATing is not my idea of fun when it comes to self-hosting.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

That is a silly assumption, like why would you assume the worst possible setup? And it would be much easier to talk to the person managing the apartment internet than having to deal with some AI chatbot that pretends to be the support at some shitty ISP.

[–] 418_im_a_teapot@sh.itjust.works 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

apartment landlord

why would you assume the worst possible setup?

(/¯ ಠ_ಠ)/¯

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Many apartments are owned by the inhabitants or are cooperatively managed.

[–] lka1988@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Not in the US they aren't.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Well... you found your problem then. It is neither my problem, nor a problem of apartments in general 🤷

[–] lka1988@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 days ago

It is a huge problem here, unfortunately.

[–] hereiamagain@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago

This. Though theoretically you could do it without CGNAT, maybe some type of complex vlan arrangement? I'm not sure, I'm not a networkologist.

I do know that I just got fiber down my road from a smaller company, still a big multi state company, but not Comcast or charter big. I called them because I was worried about CGNAT for my self hosting. The salesman didn't know what I was talking about, which is disappointing but not surprising. But they forwarded me to the tech guys, who also claimed to not know what I was talking about... Which was either a downright lie, or they were idiots, either way it's very concerning.

The price was right though, $5 cheaper per month, for 10 times faster download, and 30 times faster upload. So I gave it a shot. Thankfully I'm not behind a CGNAT, yet 🤞

[–] HelloRoot@lemy.lol 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

afaik the Ruhr Universiry of Bochum has an intranet that connects the uni and all the dorms. And they selfhost a couple of services, like email, git and pastebin. You can see a line going to the dorms on the graph.

https://noc.rub.de/web/services/start

https://nedi.noc.rub.de/netweather/

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Yeah, German Universities have special direct internet access via the "Hochschulnetz". We had some pretty fancy 5ghz directional wifi connections over several km connecting to it, but it was fairly slow (shared 10 mbit), which made that impractical for most private internet use.

[–] pseudo@jlai.lu 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Universities all over the world own their fair share of regional and national network. They also host a lot of services however in most of study field the student are not educated about it and go for corporate solutions. Professor may know about it but they are not sensibilised enough to understand they should teach to choose these tools

[–] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 days ago

I just learned about Internet2 at SuperCompute in my decades of being in the networking space

[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 14 points 1 week ago

Some do, but that means you're locked in to whoever the landlord chooses for the ISP, and you can't call the ISP for support if you have issues.

[–] Cooper8@feddit.online 48 points 1 week ago (1 children)

ISPs should be regional users cooperatives everywhere. Rural areas in the US have local ISPs structured this way, but corporate ISPs have been trying to use regulation to make them illegal in normal service areas, which is disgusting.

I predict that point to point private fiber (currently used by high speed traders) will become more and more prevalent as issues with AI impersonation and spoofing become more prevalent, we should use this infrastructure drive to push linking co-op and public mesh networks using the same long-run conduit.

[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Why not a municipal service?

[–] ramble81@lemmy.zip 16 points 1 week ago

I always thought that the municipality should own the last mile. FTTP for every unit, then the ISPs could run their lines to a local POP and just cross-connect to the house, apartment or whatever that wants their services. That way it would reduce the infrastructure that an ISP needs and also increases the available choices for a customer.

Payment for the municipal last mile could either be leveraged via your taxes or a fee that is paid by the ISP (which inevitably would be paid by the customer anyway)

[–] Cooper8@feddit.online 4 points 1 week ago

I'm ok with both, but prefer co-ops because the members get direct voting on large decisions by default, rather than a proxy vote via an appointed government worker who answers to the municipal government.

That said, there is no reason these can't be one and the same, the local government could fund the establishment of a regional co-op and maintain audit and some other limited authority over it.

I also support long-distance fiber infrastructure being built and maintained by worker's co-ops that would then get paid for service by the regional ISPs. Worker members would be highly motivated to maintain good uptime, and hiring/training members who live local to the fiber lines in remote regions would be possible with the incentive of worker ownership. Once built it is a long term maintenance and security business with steady return, perfect for a worker's co-op that could be financed with private capital at decent ROI.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 19 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] Cooper8@feddit.online 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Nice! Thanks for posting this. Does it run on all wifi bands? Is there provision for mesh extension by wired Intranet?

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

As far as I know it uses the B.A.T.M.A.N. mesh protocol. On a channel within the regular 2.4GHz wifi spectrum. So no license needed unless it collides with laws for point-to-point beams. All people communicating to each other obviously need to agree on a channel. It comes with some hierarchy where I'm at. There are local chapters who make up some config and who also operate nodes and exit nodes into the internet. These are necessary because Germany has stupid laws.

[–] irmadlad@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (2 children)

but I dream of a day when everyone’s wifi router meshes with all the other routers in the neighborhood

A modern resurrection of the party phone lol. I remember those well.

Man it's been a hot minute since I was in my ham shack as a kid banging out code on a little 5 watt transmitter/receiver. There are a good handful of repeaters in this area and they are quite invaluable when we have climate related emergencies, or other. During the pandemic I would listen to the chatter. They definitely serve a valuable purpose. The general public doesn't really realize how these little ham shacks can be quite the boon in hard times and are usually surprised that they even exist.

There is a user here that mentioned he is in funding talks for a local, independent ISP. I'm not really sure I'm ready to be connected to my neighbors intimately. Good fences make good neighbors.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (11 children)

There is a user here that mentioned he is in funding talks for a local, independent ISP. I'm not really sure I'm ready to be connected to my neighbors intimately. Good fences make good neighbors.

Why do you think an independent ISP would operate any differently at the networking level on a per-customer basis? This is basic network segmentation, and my home gear can do that pretty easily. Throw each customer on their own vlan that's a /30 and they can't do anything more than talk from their node to the central router.

Good firewalls make good digital neighbors, and an independent ISP isn't going to survive long if Alice can access Bob's home network over the ISP without having something specifically configured in Bob's network to allow that.

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[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 week ago

You're currently connected to your neighbors that intimately. Chances are a good chunk of your neighbors are on the same ISP as you.
What disconnect do you think a non-local ISP is providing that a local one wouldn't?

[–] non_burglar@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Definitely possible, and there is already some tech with the kinks worked out like wimax that could wirelessly serve a whole town. There are also folks who have created their own isps to fill in where the big players don't bother. It is apparently regulatory hell to get up and running.

The problem isn't technology, it's people.

[–] lka1988@sh.itjust.works 5 points 6 days ago

It is apparently regulatory hell to get up and running.

By design, of course.

[–] coolman@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

Cuba has their "Snet", a peer to peer mesh network of routers. It's pretty cool but it's gotta be crazy slow

[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You mention meshtaatic. There is also halow on the consumer side now. One of my goals for the next year is to set up a few open halow nodes in a mesh. As a local anarchist community network of sorts. With little or no intention of bridging it to the internet. Outside of connecting to other similar remote network segments or maybe an email/xmpp bridge. Mostly a separate local network with separate local resources.

[–] non_burglar@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Like every protocol in the unlicensed 900mhz range, 802.11ah has a very limited transmission rate in the 50 to 100 kbps range.good for occasional data like sensors or a few bytes of message, but not for any modern comma like AV, mass file transfer, etc.

[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 4 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Wi-Fi HaLow data rates range from 150Kbps to over 15Mbps, over 600 times faster than LoRaWAN while still achieving good range.

It will of course varry by environment, topology, and configuration. As everything does. But even a megabit, 125KB/s leveraging modern technologies. Would be very usable. Capable of pushing DVD level streams of AV1 and opus though at saturation. More than easily able to push basic websites. High traffic probably not. But I wouldn't expect neighborhood/village traffic to be too heavy.

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