Idk, sounds kinda scary. Idk what it was like before, because I lacked consciousness to experience it. And the idea that it all ends, back to nothingness forever. We live a few years. Pretty much nothing, if we consider the forever before, and the forever after our existence.

It's something I recall fearing as a kid, due to the scary unknown. Glad to have enjoyed a decade of bliss. Too bad the fear has come back to haunt me. It's not constant, though. Sometimes it comes, outta nowhere. Real strong. Not fun. But I don't live day to day in fear.

[–] blargh513@sh.itjust.works 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

The thing is, once youre dead, there won't be consciousness, you will not have any perception of a void, you won't know anything because you will not be.

Marc Maron put it into good perspective. He was hiking in the hills and passed out. He noted that he could very well have been dead, and that would have been that. He wasnt scared because he wasnt conscious.

You can't be afraid when you dont exist and you will not be aware of anything.

[–] Redex68@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I don't believe in God nor am I religious, but consciousness just feels so fucking weird man. Everything in the world can be explained through science and physics, cause and effect, hell even our brains and actions are just a chain of atoms interacting. But consciousness just feels so out of place. Why am I? Why am I even aware of my own existence? Why has a set of atoms resulted in my non-material consciousness? It feels so out of place. Why isn't it just a bunch of atoms bumping into eachother, why am I capable of feeling and thinking?

[–] Zink@programming.dev 12 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I think about this more than anything in those quiet "run the brain's existential dread garbage collection routine" moments.

Self aware consciousness is just so wild. Like you say, how does it even exist? But it's also so common on our little planet here (even if we only count the humans) that it is as commonplace as it is spectacular.

It feels like this magical "extra" thing, but at the same time the evidence kinda suggests it's just something that naturally happens once you get complex life.

[–] Redex68@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

The weirdest thing to me is that it's literally impossible to measure and detect whether something has consciousness. Every other thing in our universe can be measured theoretically, even if not by our current tools, but there is no way to confirm that someone else is experiencing what I am experiencing currently. It's just so weird.

[–] blargh513@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

You might find some answers in Julian Jaynes The origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind.

Short version: consciousness is kind of new. We aren't really good at it.

Also, Why Buddhism is True by Robert Wright is very good. Less about Buddhism more about how we think and why it works.

[–] te_abstract_art@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think it's important to point out that the bicameral mind is one theory, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true. One of its major criticisms is that it suggests consciousness only arose in humans around the time we started writing about it, and that it didn't exist in humans before then. It's also entirely possible that humans were conscious way before that, but when we started writing about it was just when we developed the cultural concept of what consciousness is.

The theory also seems to imply there is something special about human metacognitive processes compared to other animals, which would therefore imply that animals are not conscious. That seems weirdly reductive when various non-human animals show some evidence of self-awareness (mirror spot test, Alex the grey parrot).

It's a nice theory which ties lots of things together, but it's no more true than any other theory of consciousness at the moment.

[–] blargh513@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago

Correct. In the case of the question, I believe there is value to be gained, even if there are flaws in the argument.

[–] Zink@programming.dev 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I was really curious to check out that first book after your short version.

But damn, the subject matter of that second book might draw my attention first. The Buddhist approach & techniques made so much sense to me in a completely pragmatic way.

I might have to order myself physical copies of both of these to read outside by my koi pond on cool fall days. The fact that the whole scene will be so on the nose to the point of being cliched will just amuse me further, lol.

Thanks for the recommendations!

Edit: oh jesus christ there's a koi on the cover of Why Buddhism is True, haha. Looks like I should invest in the hardcover.

[–] blargh513@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I got a lot out of Wright's book and I continue to revisit it.

It is a slow read that demands your attention, but it is very enlightening.

[–] Zink@programming.dev 2 points 1 day ago

I will keep that in mind. I look forward to taking my time with it. Thank you again!

I ordered the other book too, but Wright's book here has definitely jumped to the front of the line.

[–] Wilco@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You are the construct of a million cells, an evolutionary "trick" that allows all the pieces to act as one. Your task is to percieve your environment and survive in it.

[–] Redex68@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Sure, I get the biology and technical aspect of it and I can understand that something could evolve whose atoms would move in such a way that it results in an object that is capable of responding dynamically to its roundings, plan and think. But for that collection of atoms to then result in this experience, I feel is extraordinarily exceptional.

[–] lemmyknow@lemmy.today 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

That's precisely the scary part. A nothingness, for all of eternity. It ends, never to continue. I do not know what it is like. Just… not seeing. Not hearing. None of the senses, and no thoughts either. No consciousness.

I wouldn't be scared after dead, cuz I'dn't have the consciousness for that. However, being alive, I can. I can fear the eternal nothingness of inexistence

I think this may or may not have some connection to a post from that monkey in the brain guy who also has a TED Talk (Tim Something?). I recall seeing a post of his about life or something. Talked about how short our lives are in the grand scheme of things. Had even an image with days or weeks or months of life, like a progress bar

On the other hand, reading that people actually close to death don't worry as much as people imagining being close to death, iirc, may have had a positive impact in my fear. Though I recalln't well

[–] LordCrom@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Well, there technically may not be an eternity. Universe is 14 billion years old now....in 32 trillion years or so the last black holes and last particles will cease to exist. Time will no longer have any meaning, and the nothingness will be all there is.

What a shit hand we were dealt.

[–] lemmyknow@lemmy.today 1 points 2 days ago

Well, maybe not eternity, but that sure is a whołe lot of time for someone who'll be around for probably less than 100 years (not sure why 100 is the number I think of when I think of an age limit to life. Is this a common occurrance, folks? Or just me? I mean, I do know some people go past it, but still…)

[–] blargh513@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

Dear brother/sister rest your mind. You cannot control what will happen and worry/fear will only agitate you.

I don't like the idea of life being over, but it is inevitable. Seek acceptance and peace with this so you do not waste your precious hours with unnecessary discomfort. There is so much more to enjoy while we are still here!

Loss of life is followed by mourning - except when it is our own. Some spend decades mourning the end of their lives because they are scared of facing it down. You've done the big scary part already. Now spend the time taking yourself through all of your fears. Once you come to acceptance it doesn't change what will be, but it will trouble you a lot less.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

The thing is, once youre dead, there won't be consciousness, you will not have any perception of a void, you won't know anything because you will not be

Do we really know this though?

What if upon death we exit the simulation?

Sometimes I think non-sim me decided to play life on hard mode. I’d kind of like to kick his ass for that. But then I realize he is me.

[–] parody@lemmings.world 1 points 1 day ago

Do we really know our dentists aren’t CIA agents installing radios but calling them fillings?!

What happens after death is just about the least concerning thing I can imagine. (yay rejoice!) Anywhere from seconds to decades of stuff to worry about before that! :) (oh no anxiety again sorry!)

[–] blargh513@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago

You can't know until then, so what is the value in worrying?