this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2025
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[–] WindAqueduct@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (13 children)

Yes, people should have that, but it's not that simple. Some liberals, particularly classical liberals, think a free market would bring those things to everyone. I don't necessarily disagree, though I think free markets can only ever be free under communism/socialism, not capitalism. The issue with centrally planned, universal healthcare is that a hostile government could refuse to provide you care, much like insurance companies that don't approve coverage for many things. Additionally, there needs to be strong medical privacy protections.

[–] Overshoot2648@lemmy.today -4 points 2 days ago (4 children)

I like to take a Mutualist position on it. Things should only be socialized to their direct stakeholders. So most companies would be worker coöps. Utilities would be consumer worker coöps. And large interstate transit would be federal. Universal healthcare would fall into the later as a largescale consumer coöp.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

This doesn't really solve the problems of capitalism, competing cooperatives still gives rise to class distinctions and creates an economy oriented around competition over collective interest. Cooperatives can play a part of a broader, developing socialist society, but should always be intended on being phased out. You can have local units of broader contexts without soley giving ownership to the local.

[–] Overshoot2648@lemmy.today -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

As a Mutualist, I firmly disagree. Coöps are essentially a democratic alternative to top-down coercive management styles or forms of ownership. It is a mutualist system that is antithetical to competition.

Take a renter's coöp for example. Essentially everyone owns their building and they aren't competing with other buildings or have shareholders would expect a return on investment.

With coöps you can actually respect locality. Large auth-socialist systems will often have with people competing interests who have undo control over local systems. That isn't to say broader standards shouldn't exist, but that they should be done thru voluntary industry wide syndication.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 days ago

The problem with cooperative ownership is it puts local interests over global interests, and gives rise to class distinctions. Local councils can play a part in a broader system, but local coops forming the basis of organization works directly against collectivized planning and production. The Soviet Union, early on, experienced directly the consequences of having too much local control, resulting in some local factories "gaming the system."

Not all forms of managament and administration are coercive or bad. Trying to solve the issues of management under capitalism and replicating the competitive class structure in a horizontalist fashion misanalyzes the problem and thus provides a faulty conclusion.

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