this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2025
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Again, I recommend listening to queer Chinese citizens. As you pointed out, Cuba is one of the world's most progressive states, and that's because of Marxism-Leninism's liberatory nature. In China, it's already far easier to be poor than in the US Empire, and is easier to be queer than many areas in the US Empire as well. Life is improving both generally and with respect to LGBTQIA+ rights. Currently it's more of a divide between the young and the old, with the passage of time China's queer rights are expected to continue improving.
Cuba is not 'new deal with Chinese characteristics' though.
You're comparing things to the us empire. As if that makes it good. My apartment is cleaner than the inside of a septic tank, so I'm a good housekeeper.
Cuba proves its not a tankie problem. Its a 'these fuckers in charge' problem. Or maybe you're right, and all Chinese people are just bigots who like being censored and copped at, which seems fucking weird and implausible but idk you're the expert.
Cuba is a socialist economy like China. They have a private sector like China does, but public ownership remains the principle aspect, like China. Cuba is an example of why Marxism-Leninism is a liberating ideology.
I have never once said "all Chinese people are bigots who like being censored and copped at." That's a ridiculous statement. The older generations are generally homophobic, and the younger generations are more progressive, and as these demographics change the laws are following suit. That's why you need to listen to queer Chinese citizens. Secondly, Chinese citizens appreciate that censorship is levied against capitalists and that the police uphold the socialist system, which is a necessity in socialism where class struggle is very much alive.
Really, most of your confusion about China could be resolved by just listening to Chinese citizens.
I actually did talk to a lot of Chinese queers back when that was easier¹. It was a pretty grim picture.
The ones ive talked yo recently don't live there-because it's not a great place to be queer, and since the place I live got a lot more fuckef up, they don't live here either, so I can't ask them.
¹because of the censorship
Then you should talk to them more, they are often on Rednote too.
Oh you don't have script for that?
Script? It's easier than ever to talk to queer people in China, that's a fact, and it's also a fact that conditions are steadily improving. Being vague like saying "it's grim" or that you can't because of "censorship getting worse" isn't a point, or anything I can engage with, beyond telling you to actually talk to them.
I did, back when i didnt have to use heavily censored bullshit social networks almost a quarter as bad as Facebook. I'm not doing that.
Gotcha, so at best you're ignorant of the situation and are posturing based on assumptions, rather than actually talking with them to get their perspectives. I understand not wanting to use social media that isn't like the fediverse, but then you have to make that concession. Seems more like self-censorship than anything China's doing.
My point is that while China has problems, it's steadily improving. Throwing in fearmongering about things like "censorship" and incoherent jabs at Marxism concoct a viewpoint that is just passively chauvanistic. I'm not queerphobic, nor am I denying that China has problems to work through, I'm trying to get you to view China more sympathetically and not as some terror regime the people are in constant fear of. The vast majority of people in China support their system, and that includes queer people, so it's obviously something they understand is improving as well.
I don't really care what you think of me, if I'm being honest. I have seen extreme bad-faith from you, as well as incoherent points and a refusal to accept facts. Replying to you is more for others to see, than it is to change your mind, as I can see that it's highly unlikely you will.
Seems about the same on queer rights.
And you dont have to be gradual about this. See again: fucking Cuba.
I don't think it's a terror regime², I think it's a banal authoritarian shit hole with plenty of bread and circuses. It's not bad, but its not paradise, and I wouldn't even say it's good. I'm not fucking blaming Marxism. I'm pointing out that Marxism is clearly not the problem here, whether I agree with it or not.
I'm not certain you can read.
²i live in one of those!
It's not a banal authoritarian shithole, though. There's a wide gulf between "paradise" and "bad," and it's much better than being a "shithole." Again, the vast majority of Chinese people support it, including queer people.
No, I did not say they have to be gradual with queer rights (though Cuba had it's own period of homophobia in its early days too). My point is that, whether anyone likes it or not, they are still gradually improving in that respect as well, rather than declining and dying.
None if the queer people I knew there felt they had a future unless they left. They didnt think they were gonna get their doors kicked down, just thar they could either participate in society or be openly queer.
Sorry about the laziness and bad faith. You seemkind of zealoty in defending absolutely deeply flawed stuff, and give off disingenuous vibes. Makes it difficult to care enough to make the effort. Mutual non engagement or block, race you to the end of capitalism, winner gets bragging rights?
I'm not "defending deeply flawed stuff." There's a difference between genuine critique, and just lazily parroting right-wing views on a country divorced from what the actual population believes. I'm not disingenuous either, despite your repeated insults and clear bad-faith over and over again.
While I appreciate the olive branch at the end, I don't feel like agreeing to that when you've been bad-faith and insulted me the entire time, including in this comment, so I can't certify I won't respond to anything you say in the future as well.