There's no official license or certification for software engineering in the US, so anyone claiming you have to meet some requirement to call yourself a software engineer is factually wrong. Now, pretty much every tech company calls anyone who writes code some form of engineer, so much so that SDE/SWE is a pretty universal acronym.

I really don't care personally, and I don't go around grouping myself in with other engineering fields. But for the past 7 or so years, my actual job title has had the word "engineer" in it despite the fact that I don't have a Bachelor's degree. I feel like jumping through hoops to say, "well, my official title is Software Engineer, but technically I'm a programmer" is just pedantic and probably more confusing for most people.

I could see an argument for differentiating between those who participate heavily in the design and evolution of an entire codebase (as opposed to those who just pull tickets and write code), but even that has kind of just evolved into the junior/mid/senior/etc terminology.

[–] Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca -2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

The P.Eng society is working on this, so that only actual engineers can use the title engineer. Software “engineers” should just be called code monkeys.

It many countries, like Germany, engineer is a protected designation, just like doctor.

[–] jonathan7luke@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 days ago

The P.Eng society is working on this, so that only actual engineers can use the title engineer.

Which is why I specified I was talking about the US. Also, fair. If the term ever actually has a clear set of requirements, then of course it would be incorrect to claim the title without meeting those requirements.

Software “engineers” should just be called code monkeys.

I hope you realize how elitist this comes across. I've worked with a lot of contractors, web developers, etc. that have a strong understanding of software development and are able to author software really well. I would be so embarrassed if they knew I referred to them as "code monkeys". Something tells me that you're the kind of person I'm very grateful to have never had the misfortune of working with.

[–] finitebanjo@piefed.world 17 points 4 days ago (1 children)

If you don't know math then you should not be engineering anything, period.

[–] vithigar@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Not having a degree doesn't mean they don't know math.

[–] finitebanjo@piefed.world 4 points 4 days ago (2 children)

And not having a degree doesn't mean they don't know medicine, either. Is it your opinion that we should deregulate hospitals, too?

[–] Don_alForno@feddit.org 7 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Engineers use math and know math. That doesn't mean they have math degrees. They have engineering degrees. Of which math courses are a part.

Moreover, most people with actual math and science degrees explicitly are not engineers.

[–] finitebanjo@piefed.world 0 points 3 days ago

Semantics but I would argue an Engineering Degree is a Math and Science Degree.

[–] jonathan7luke@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 days ago (2 children)

we should deregulate hospitals, too

You do realize that the term "software engineer" isn't regulated, right? There's no test, no license, no bar/board. Unlike doctors, who are required by law to have a medical license.

[–] finitebanjo@piefed.world 1 points 3 days ago

Some countries do regulate the term "Engineer" which is the way it should be, imo.

[–] Miaou@jlai.lu -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It is

[–] jonathan7luke@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 days ago

To be more specific, in the US, it is definitely not.

[–] ieGod@lemmy.zip 16 points 4 days ago

No, but programming is not engineering.

[–] Miaou@jlai.lu 2 points 3 days ago

Then they're not engineers, no shame in that...