this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2025
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I respect people's right to use apple products, but please stop asserting "privacy", big corps doesn't give a shit.

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[–] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 22 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (4 children)

Yeah, you can go with a Linux phone but forget about:

  • controlling any IOT device
  • using any smart watch/sport trakcer
  • Android Auto or any remote car features
  • mobile banking
  • authenticating at work
  • buying public transport tickets from your phone
  • using apps for boarding pass when flying
  • charging your car at most public chargers
  • using any type of digital ID or documents

If you're already a luddite that's awesome, you're free to move to Linux phones. If you like modern tech and the convenience it gave us it will be really fucking sad to lose all of it because or corporate greed.

[–] sonofearth@lemmy.world 20 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

Agreed, but is a chicken and egg problem. People won't use Linux because the apps they want don't support it and apps won't support it because most people don't use Linux. Someone will have to cave in if we want to break this stupid proprietary duopoly.

[–] lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 4 hours ago

Someone will have to cave in if we want to break this stupid proprietary duopoly.

Honestly that's not a chicken-and-egg problem. Only one party of the two in this example has the power to create or change apps, whereas people in this example, even if they would use Linux, they effectively are prevented from.

The "someone" who has to cave in is obvious.

[–] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 9 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

The best way is freeing Android. Android should be the "Mobile Linux". What should happen is that EU should ensure that people are allowed to side load and unlock bootloaders and that all apps are compatible with alternative ROMs. All dependencies on google play services should simply be made illegal and all apps should be fully compatible with AOSP.

If we can't get this we will spend the next 10-15 years in mobile dark ages. Mobile Linux may never get enough tracking to be supported the way desktop Linux is.

[–] sonofearth@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

I don’t think it’ll play out that way. Manufacturers aren’t going to ditch Google. Play Store and Google certification are too valuable for them. And for small developers, most of them rely on Google’s infrastructure. If the EU decides to take that away, only big players with resources could handle their own systems, which ironically makes things less open because indies get squeezed out.

If we skip the Play Services part, the EU might push for sideloading and more openness, but realistically Play Services will remain dominant simply because it’s the easiest and most convenient option for developers. So we’ll probably end up with a halfway solution: technically more open, but practically still dependent on Google.

If we really want change, proper GNU/Linux phones need to catch up or at least run Android apps (APKs) reliably. That alone would solve 70% of the problem. The remaining 30% comes down to infrastructure and right now Google Play Services is just too polished and convenient (especially for indies who don’t care about FOSS ideals) for devs to walk away from.

[–] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

I will admit I'm ignorant here. What do companies use Google Play Services for? I developed some Android app and I never had to rely on Google. I just used F-Droid. Other than play store for distribution, which services provided by Google would be so hard to replace?

[–] 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 3 points 4 hours ago

Location services, geofencing, connectivity sign in, banking services... basically the walls of the garden

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[–] drath@lemmy.world 6 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I used to run an LTE-enabled nettop instead of a phone during the app-only craze, can't get any worse than that. Recently removed bank apps, taxi, delivery, maps, youtube, email and all social media apps off my phone in favour of using websites instead. They're still a bit of an afterthought compared to apps so the experience is a bit clunky, but the option is available for most things nowadays.

[–] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 1 points 5 hours ago

Some things yes. I don't have any social media apps (not even lemmy) or YT but my car charger requires an app, my AC has an app I use from time to time, my Garmin GPS has an app, I have to use MS Authenticator at work, my car has an app and Android Auto and 90% of public car charges require an app. None of this has website alternative. Can I live without them? Well, not without work obviously and where I live electric car infrastructure is so tied to mobile phones I'm seriously considering just giving up and going back to a normal car.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Don't they have functioning Android app support now?

[–] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 1 points 4 hours ago

In theory yes but most non open source apps require google play services. Hard to tell how long those will work with waydroid and similar. Also running android apps this ways destroys battery apparently.

[–] Gloomy@mander.xyz 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Most of this i don't use my phone for anyway. I'll use my current android phone for the rest, if needed.

Still going to wait and see if the Eu makes a move, but i won't go back to fascist enabling corps.

[–] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 2 points 6 hours ago

Yeah, sadly I don't see a way around it other than having spare Android/iOS phone.

For some time GrapheneOS should work just fine but when Google kills it we're fucked.

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 4 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

After using GrapheneOS on a gigantic fucking Android pixel model, I think I'm gravitating back towards the third option and the iphone mini I haven't dared to sell yet. I think I'll just do the things that needs privacy on my computer in the future.

[–] daggermoon@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago

I wanna run away to live with dogs like Diogenes. I'll live in a basket and piss and shit in the streets. No spyware phone required.

[–] kadu@scribe.disroot.org 9 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

My biggest issue with the alternative phones is I'm not paying a massively inflated price for bad hardware just because it's using free software, sorry. Same goes for Framework laptops. I will tolerate paying a premium, but everything about the device must match the price tag.

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[–] MyDarkestTimeline01@ani.social 9 points 7 hours ago

I'm sorry I'm not buying a Linux phone or similar for the same reason I'm not going to become a mechanic to drive a car. I want to activate my SIM card and go. Out of the box. I don't want to have to know about kernel access side booting in dev mode. People like me are the primary user base for most devices.

[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 2 points 5 hours ago

"My iphone battery died again!? I guess I'll have to buy another new phone. Why does this keep happening?" /s

[–] enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works 14 points 12 hours ago (6 children)

First of all: writing this from my iPhone. I’ve been on various android phones, including flashed to Sailfish and alternative ROMs, and I kinda hate being on an iPhone now. But - it works.

Look at the incentives of Google and Apple. Google sells ads. That’s it. Any operation at Google other than that is just a small side hustle. Apple sells hardware and 30% commission on apps/media. Apple’s incentives to fuck over the privacy of individuals is far smaller than Google’s incentives. That’s it.

Let’s go through the list:

  • Android vendors (Samsung et. al): Zero incentive to not sell you out. Also, no recurring revenue throughout device lifetime (except selling your data), so zero incentives to provide more than absolutely minimal software support after sale.
  • Open Source ROMs: All the incentive, but zero funding or business model. Continually fighting against Google. Thus, not really an option for ”normal” people. I won’t hand my mother a flashed phone, and she won’t be able to flash one on her own.
  • Sailfish: Had incentives and a business model. When I used it, the developers could barely keep the web browser patched. Tell me that’s good for privacy.
  • Apple: Has incentives to patch and update older phones (recurring revenues from AppStore and iCloud), and doesn’t really sell any ads themselves.

Apple are anti-consumer assholes with a clear objective of creating lock-in under the guise of ”privacy” and ”security”, and they really want to force people into buying more hardware. Agreed. But they are the only major phone vendor that doesn’t have incentives to actively screw you over.

Is a flashed ROM ”better” for ”privacy”? Probably. Should you get your mother an iPhone? Yes.

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 7 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

From the security standpoint and the patching standpoint, you are 100% straight on accurate.

Unfortunately, Apple Microsoft and Google all sell ads. They are also all working on training AI with your data.

The upside is, as far as ad companies go, they're not just handing over the data that "bleachedbluejeans23@apple.com likes red squirrels to be vendors" They sell client code where the client pulls the ads directly from apple's platform.

They're all collecting dossiers on you. They have all identified you and their systems with whatever emails, payment cards, what have you that you use on their systems. And they have a database with all of your intimate desires and wishes and wants and how much money you make.

When Google started doing this, they threw up the don't be evil banner. You can't just give all this information to a company and then trust them not to use it forever.

[–] enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

So where can my mother buy this excellent non-tracking phone?

She can’t. No one sells it.

Of course everyone is collecting a shitton of data. Out of the two (realistic) alternatives we have today, Apple has, by far, a better track record. Still bad, but they have far fewer incentives to be shitty than Google. Googles only incentive is to be shitty and sell ads. Pick your poison.

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[–] Mr_WorldlyWiseman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

Both Tim and Pinchai paid Donald Trump money to attend his inauguration and lick his ass on a daily basis. They both have one very big incentive to invade their user's privacy: American fascism.

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[–] docoptix@lemmy.world 7 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Apple: Has incentives to patch and update older phones (recurring revenues from AppStore and iCloud), and doesn’t really sell any ads themselves.

Don't fall for Apple PR, they sell you out like everyone else does: https://ads.apple.com/

[–] enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Of course they do.

But they have recurring revenue streams other than just ads, unlike the Android vendors. Meaning - they probably won’t fuck me over as hard as Google.

Edit: also, note that the ads they sell via your link are on their own platform, i.e. within their own ecosystem. The revenue here is most likely peanuts compared to the AppStore commissions.

[–] Zozano@aussie.zone 4 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Alternatively, get your mother an android phone and chuck /e/OS on it and tell her it's an iPhone. She won't know.

[–] enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 hours ago

Try it. I dare you. And I want you to succeed.

People have been saying this about linux for the past two decades. Gamers are only now looking at moving over to Linux, after Valve invested a shitton of money into compatibility and usability, fixing the edge cases. And that’s the small subset of people who actively care about their computer. Normal people moving to Linux won’t happen the next few years.

Preserving usability while locking down a system is a really fucking hard problem, especially when you need to do it for normal people and not only us nerds. And you really need the normal people there in order to inject funding.

[–] fin@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Linux Phone with waydroid is the way

[–] enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Probably excellent. Can my mother buy it over the shelf, in a store?

If not, what’s the best alternative currently available over the shelf, in a physical brick and mortar store, for my mother?

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[–] chunes@lemmy.world 55 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (3 children)

I hate the term sideloading. It's a made-up propaganda word to make it seem scary or wrong to install software on your device. All in the name of corporate profits.

[–] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 15 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

It's like "jaywalking" oooh oh no don't "jay" walk, don't "side" load; conform to our business machines! Your natural existence and free movements are an inconvenience to us therefore you have to change.

Or whatever bullshit--however they couch it.

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[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 8 points 8 hours ago

"Warning: If you unlock your phone, it might explode or you might become a terrorist. Also we won't pay your money back even if there is faulty hardware because there is non zero chance you might have caused it while unlocking"

[–] this@sh.itjust.works 15 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (3 children)

Yea, who are google and apple to tell us what to do with OUR devices that WE OWN anyways?

I will never buy a smartphone(or a computer) that I can't replace the stock OS on, because the transaction for me and the device maker should end when I buy their device, period.

The entire business model of selling me a device only to then extract the maximum possible amount of data points, sell that data to fuck-knows-who(compromising my privacy, and possibly safety), and maximizing targeted ads to attempt to manipulate me is beyond absurd.

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[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 9 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

How are devs supposed to test their apps on devices before they publish?

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

They can upload their ID to google, pay $25 USD, and then sign their apps using their own signing key which was pre-approved by Google.

Its the same for apple, but I think their fees are like $99 per year.

There are also reports of Google potentially leaving in a ADB bypass for it.

[–] Stomata@sh.itjust.works 37 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

There is no word called sideloding it's called installing software

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 14 points 14 hours ago

"Sideloading" means "defeating a walled garden to install software"

[–] Berlinblades@lemmy.world 7 points 11 hours ago (4 children)

What are the consequences for Lineage OS?

[–] nomadjoanne@lemmy.world 7 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

It won't affect you in any way directly. The issue is it very well may affect what apps are available and regularly updated on Fdroid and other app stores or repos.

[–] Berlinblades@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

I get it, it's bad for the ecosystem in general.

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 hours ago

Installing non-approved apps on custom roms will still work.

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