Interested in Marxism-Leninism? Check out my "Read Theory, Darn it!" introductory reading list!
this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2025
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Centralization: Marx advocated for centralization to empower workers, not to create a bureaucratic elite. The issue isn’t centralization itself but the exclusion of workers from meaningful control in AES states.
Worker Suppression: While AES states achieved significant social gains, suppression refers to limiting worker autonomy, like crushing independent unions or dissent. Material gains don’t erase these contradictions.
Worker Control and Class Abolition: AES moved toward collective ownership but retained a strong ruling elite, deviating from Marx’s vision of worker-led production and the state’s gradual dissolution.
Purges and Cultural Revolution: These events suppressed debate and autonomy, both vital for Marxist progress. Proletarian agency is more than material gains, are the workers actively shaping society?
The accusative tone is unnecessary. Assuming someone isn’t "actually a Marxist" or demanding reading lists shuts down discussion. Are we here to discuss and comment or just to pass judgment?
How are workers "excluded from meaningful control?" Again, you don't say anything about how or why.
I need to see some examples of "crushing independent unions and dissent." What unions, and what dissent?
What is an "elite?" What does worker ownership look like in your eyes that differs from the democratic structures in AES? Further, the real material gains for the Working Class is a signifier of the Socialist model, AES worked for the Proletariat above all else.
What debate and autonomy was suppressed? What are you saying should have been allowed?
As for why I am asking if you're a Marxist and what you've read, it's so I can fill in the blanks you are leaving. There's no discussion being had here, every time I ask for clarification you get more and more vague. If you explained that you're an Orthodox Marxist, as an example, I know where you're coming from and can fill in the gaps. If you say you're a Trot, I can also understand where you're working from. This isn't about power-level scaling with reading lists, I want to know where you're drawing your conclusions from, because your analysis contradicts the overwhelming majority of Marxists worldwide.
In AES states, decision-making was often centralized in the hands of party officials or bureaucrats, not the workers themselves. Marx wanted workers to manage their workplaces directly.
Independent unions and dissenting voices were suppressed. Examples include the USSR controlling unions and the repression of Solidarity in Poland.
An elite is a small group in power, often controlling the state and economy. Worker ownership means workers democratically managing their workplaces without a ruling class.
The state suppressed critical debate, as seen in Stalin’s purges and China’s Cultural Revolution, stifling workers' ability to shape society.
I don't have a need to fall under any labels. I agree on the lack of discussion and sense there's a need to be judged for some invisible requirements which seem more vague than what I comment.