605
Ice obtains access to Israeli-made spyware that can hack phones and encrypted apps
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2025
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The fuck? How?
"Just following orders" isn't a valid excuse. We know this from history.
I never said it was.
My point is that killing the soldier doesn't change the orders, they'll just find another soldier. If one soldier isn't willing to follow orders, they'll find another that is.
You were kind of making the same defense though...
The implication was that we shouldn't blame the soldiers because they weren't the ones who made the decision.
That's not how this works.
No, the implication is that targeting ICE agents doesn't solve the problem. I'm not saying that ICE agents should be immune from the law, I'm saying that the root of the problem is the orders. If some ICE agents refuse to follow orders, they'll be replaced by those who will follow them, just like a murder will replace a gun if it doesn't function properly.
The focus should be on the source of the problems, which is a mix of the law and the leadership. We should certainly hold ICE agents accountable for any laws they break, but targeting them w/ violence shouldn't be the focus.
If they fear actual consequences, then less people will be willing to join.
They are literal extrajudicial fascist brownshirts that want my friends and neighbors dead. These are actual people under those masks, and they need to understand that their actions have consequences. I'm not saying people should go out and kill them, but I'm saying that they need to fear that
You can focus on both my dude.
No, recruitment will just focus on hiring people that are okay with those circumstances, which means people with less empathy and quicker to use force. I'm not implying we should ignore illegal actions by ICE agents (we should absolutely hold them legally accountable), I'm just saying that it's not likely to solve the problem w/o changes to the law and/or the leadership, especially given how the courts tend to give law enforcement officers a pass.
As people target ICE agents more and more w/ violence, the more violence they'll use in response. Violence begets violence, and that's not going to solve the problem.
What we need are lawsuits challenging the legality of their actions, and ideally criminal charges against the leadership making illegal orders. We need to pressure our representatives to change the law. We need to protest peacefully and get positive media coverage so our voices cannot be ignored. Violence isn't going to solve it.
This is a bad take. The violence is here already dude.
Sure, and what will adding more violence accomplish? What has violent opposition ever accomplished? Unless we're willing to wage a full on revolution (which would have different targets), all that'll happen is more people will die and we'll justify the rhetoric that these are "bad people" with "gang affiliations." The more "success" you have opposing ICE, the more justified the admin will be in using the National Guard and maybe even the federal military.
None of that sounds like progress to me. Working through the system takes longer, but I do think it's more likely to be successful.
Read about the history of fascism, and the one and only way it has ever been able to be defeated.
And what way is that?
For example, Spain became a liberal democracy after the death of Fernando Franco. Alberto Fujimori of Peru was forced out due to public outcry over a corruption scandal during the runoff for his third term. Silvio Berlusconi of Italy resigned after a budget bill he pushed for was rejected. None of those involved a violent overthrow.
Sometimes that's the only option (i.e. Nazi Germany and Italy under Mussolini), but not always.