this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2025
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[–] Saprophyte@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

If ChatGPT's browser is just another chromium clone and they couldn't get their own AI to write a browser, I doubt other customers of theirs will get their shitbot to write code for them either.

[–] whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The most consistent and highest paying jobs I've had are replacing or fixing legacy and garbage systems. I don't think the current gen llm's are anywhere close to being able to do those jobs, and is in fact causing those jobs to have more work the more insecure, inefficient trash they generate.

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Fellow tech-trash-disposal-engineer here. I've made a killing on replacing corporate anti-patterns. My career features such hits and old-time classics like:

  • email as workflow
  • email as version control
  • email as project management
  • email as literally anything other than email
  • excel as an relational database
  • excel as project management
  • help, our wiki is out of control
  • U-drive as a multi-user collaboration solution
  • The CEO's nephew wrote this 8 years ago and we can't get rid of it

In all of these cases, there were always better answers that maybe just cost a little bit more. AI will absolutely cause some players to train-wreck their business, all to save a buck, and we'll all be there to help clean up. Count on it.

[–] SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

excel as an relational database

That reminds me of a story. I used to do IT consulting, years ago. One client was running their 5 person real estate office off a low quality, consumer grade, box store HP desktop repurposed as a server. All collaboration was through their U drive, plus every profile had their desktop folder redirected there.

The complaint was the classic "everything is slow", which turned out to be "opening my spreadsheet takes 10 minutes then it's slow". Yeah, because that poor little "server" had a single 100 Mb jack and the owner had a 1.5 GB excel spreadsheet project where he was trying to build a relational database and property valuation tool. Six fucking heavily cross referenced tabs, some with thousands of entries. He was so proud when I asked him to explain what was going on there. He fired me when I couldn't fix his issue without massive changes to either his excel abomination or hardware.

Hey, kudos for finding multiple anti-patterns all in one place like that. I didn't even think about "underpowered desktop as company server" as another pattern, but here we are.

Sorry you didn't get the contract, but that sounds like a blessing in disguise to be honest.

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[–] Matriks404@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Building apps without using code is still programming, since you must create logic for the program.

[–] socsa@piefed.social 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Literally nothing of consequence has been built with visual, mda or no-code paradigms.

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Well let me tell you, the things built in the vibe-cpdong paradigm will have consequences

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You're D:\ has been deleted. I'm very sorry.

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 1 points 15 hours ago

Well, not mine, I can tell you that. And I'm not about to give an AI write permissions for /mnt

[–] Rusty@lemmy.ca 73 points 2 days ago (2 children)

You can add SQL in the 70s. It was created to be human readable so business people could write sql queries themselves without programmers.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 35 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Ironically, one of the universal things I've noticed in programmers (myself included) is that newbie coders always go through a phase of thinking "why am I writing SQL? I'll write a set of classes to write the SQL for me!" resulting in a massively overcomplicated mess that is a hundred times harder to use (and maintain) than a simple SQL statement would be. The most hilarious example of this I ever saw was when I took over a young colleague's code base and found two classes named "OR.cs" and "AND.cs". All they did was take a String as a parameter, append " OR " or " AND " to it, and return it as the output. Very forward-thinking, in case the meanings of "OR" and "AND" were ever to change in future versions of SQL.

[–] jacksilver@lemmy.world 20 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Object Relational Mapping can be helpful when dealing with larger codebases/complex databases for simply creating a more programmatic way of interacting with your data.

I can't say it is always worth it, nor does it always make things simpler, but it can help.

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 days ago

I used to use ORMs because they made switching between local dev DBs ( like SQLLite, or Postgres) and production DBs usually painless. Especially for Ruby/Sinatra/Rails since we were writing the model queries in another abstraction. It meant we didn’t have to think as much about joins and all that stuff. Until the performance went to shit and you had to work out why.

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[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago (3 children)

So is COBOL.

(Is there any sane alternative to SQL?)

[–] drasglaf@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

(Is there any sane alternative to SQL?)

Yes, no SQL.

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[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 213 points 2 days ago (17 children)

Describing what they want in plain, human language is impossible for stakeholders.

[–] Sunsofold@lemmings.world 81 points 2 days ago (1 children)

'I want you to make me a Facebook-killer app with agentive AI and blockchains. Why is that so hard for you code monkeys to understand?'

[–] LordCrom@lemmy.world 31 points 2 days ago (2 children)

You forgot we run on fritos, tab, and mountain dew.

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[–] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 30 points 2 days ago

Even writing an RFC for a mildly complicated feature to mostly describe it takes so many words and communication with stakeholders that it can be a full time job. Imagine an entire app.

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[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 24 points 2 days ago (3 children)

When growing up in the 70's "computer programmers" were assumed to be geniuses. Nowadays they are maybe one tier above fast food workers. What a world!

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Nowadays they are maybe one tier above fast food workers.

:-/

Having worked both jobs, I could point to a few differences

[–] Rooster326@programming.dev 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yeah fast food is a lot more stressful.

Every single job in my entire life I have made more money, and my workload has gotten easier. I am grateful everyday I escaped the trap. Very few do.

[–] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago

Food is essential, the new shiny way to gobble more RAM to display a blue mushroom in a button isn't.

That environment was wild though. At the time, you basically needed to be an electrical engineer and/or a licensed HAM operator, just to have your head wrapped around how it all worked. Familiarity with the very electronics of the thing, even modifying the hardware directly when needed, was crucial to operating that old tech.

[–] sheogorath@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

Well to be fair if you're a programmer in the 70s you might as well be a genius.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 34 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Explicit programmers are needed because the general public has failed to learn programming. Hiding the complexity behind nice interfaces makes it actually more difficult to understand programming.

This comes all from programmers using programs to abstract programming away.

What if the 2030s change the approach and use AI to teach everybody how to program?

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago (7 children)

the general public has failed to learn programming

That's like saying that the general public has failed to learn surgery, or the general public has failed to learn chemical engineering.

There are certain things that it just doesn't make sense for the general public to ever be expected to learn.

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[–] Gremour@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago

Hiding the complexity behind nice interfaces makes it actually more difficult to understand programming.

This is a very important point, that most of my colleagues with OOP background seem to miss. They build a bunch of abstractions and then say it's easy, because we have one liner in calling code, pretending that the rest of the code doesn't exist. Oh yes, it certainly exists! And needs to be maintained, too.

[–] MysticKetchup@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

What if the 2030s change the approach and use AI to teach everybody how to program?

What does AI (already known to be an unreliable bullshitting machine) provide to students that existing tutorials, videos and teachers do not already?

Also the companies investing in AI are not trying to teach their workers to be better, they're trying to make more profit by replacing workers or artificially increasing their outputs. Teaching people to program is not what they care about

[–] Luccus@feddit.org 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I find this to be a real problem with visual shaders. I know how certain mathematical formulas affect an input, but instead of just pressing the Enter key and writing it down, I now have to move blocks around, and oh no, they were nicely logically aligned, now one block is covering another block, oh noo, what a mess and the auto sort thing messes up the logical sorting completly… well too bad.

And I find that most solutions on the internet utilizing the visual editor tend to forget that previous outputs can be reused. Getting normals from already generated noise without resampling somehow becomes arcane knowledge.

Edit: words.

[–] Surp@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago

If only this wasn't becoming the agenda of big corporations...they are dropping jobs left and right and it's scary. Robots will be doing most of our jobs sooner than later...lookup flippy bot we won't even have entry level jobs soon and the problem is we're not doing this to become more like star trek. They are doing this to add seventeen more marble gold diamond pillars to their dogs puppies houses on their 9000 acre private islands.

[–] Imacat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 63 points 2 days ago

Least it’s an improvement over no/low code. You can dig in and unfuck some ai code easily enough but god help you if your no code platform has a bug that only their support team can fix. Not to mention the vendor lock in and licensing costs that come with it.

[–] myfunnyaccountname@lemmy.zip 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I’m still waiting to be replaced by robots and computers.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My company recently acquired another firm that tried to outsource the entire IT department and proceeded to shit itself to death.

Go ahead cowards. Replace me with a computer. I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine.

[–] myfunnyaccountname@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 day ago

Feeling that. My company is off shoring and out sourcing a lot of stuff now. It’s a nightmare. But profits are up. So hey, who cares if the software is held together with hopes and dreams. And our hosted services admins don’t have a clue.

This is why I half ass things with AI. Mgmt clearly doesn’t care.

[–] W3dd1e@lemmy.zip 40 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Doesn’t matter if they can replace coders. If CEOs think it can, it will.

And now, it’s good enough to look like it works so the CEO can just push the problem down the road and get an instant stock inflation

[–] gnutrino@programming.dev 31 points 2 days ago (16 children)

And then it'll all go to shit and proper programmers will be able to charge bank to sort it out.

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[–] ulterno@programming.dev 39 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I don't get how an MDA would translate to "no programmers needed". Maybe they meant "coders"?
But really, I feel like the people who use this phrase to pitch their product either don't know how many people actually find it difficult to break down tasks into logical components, such that a computer would be able to use,, or they're lying.

[–] TeamAssimilation@infosec.pub 35 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Software engineering is a mindset, a way of doing something while thinking forward (and I don’t mean just scalability), at least if you want it done with quality. Today you can’t vibe code but proofs of concept, prototypes that are in no way ready for production.

I don’t see current LLMs overcoming this soon. It appears that they’ve reached their limits without achieving general AI, which is what truly would obsolete programmers, and humans in general.

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[–] Pechente@feddit.org 38 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (31 children)

LLMs often fail at the simplest tasks. Just this week I had it fail multiple times where the solution ended up being incredibly simple and yet it couldn’t figure it out. LLMs also seem to „think“ any problem can be solved with more code, thereby making the project much harder to maintain.

LLMs won’t replace programmers anytime soon but I can see sketchy companies taking programming projects by scamming their clients through selling them work generated by LLMs. I‘ve heard multiple accounts of this already happening and similar things happened with no code solutions before.

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