Was it a democracy when women and people of color couldn't vote?
Was it a democracy when the two party system artificially limited your options in the voting booth?
I don't think it was ever a democracy.
this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2025
485 points (95.2% liked)
politics
25872 readers
3535 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Was it a democracy
Well, yes. Both the ancient forms of governance resembling what we call democracy and the Greek system that gives us the word Democracy typically excluded people to various degrees. Don't take that as a value judgement, I support anything that enfranchises more people, not less but I won't try to redefine words
But the actual use of the word is a redefinition from the literal meaning, though. Democracy is power to the people, and states are the ones that keep adding conditions on who has the right to vote, starting with citizenship or criminal records - and deciding who gets to be a citizen as well as inventing new crimes that can lose you that right. This is a legal limitation that is decided by the state and it is always redefining the word. So no, modern and ancient states alike never really had a democracy, they just created a word and then decided that actually some people don't have that right, beyond the literal definition of that word. Power to the people^not everyone is people^.
People improved on the original concept. When we added seatbelts and airbags to cars, and it didn't make a model-T not a car anymore.
The Greek trolley was not a car either. We came up with a big idea, we made something very limited and pretended that it was that idea, and we've only added a coat of paint since, is the analogy I prefer to make.
Nearly 1.5 million people can't vote in Florida because they've been to prison.
Guess how many votes Trump won Florida by in 2024?
Pretty sure technically it was never a democracy in the textbook definition meaning. It is/was a republic.
It's not news. My personal date for the start of dictatorship in the United Stated is March 14, 2025: that's the first instance of Trump and his henchmen disobeying a court decision.
I think it was earlier, when the supreme Court ruled that the president could do what he wanted as long as it was part of his duties and THEY get to decide what is part of his duties.
Yes I did say duty. Grow up.
load more comments
(7 replies)
IMO it's the day he took power the second time.
As he said plainly, "I'll be a dictator from day one". And then millions of Americans looked at his record, looked at all the crimes he'd been found guilty of, considered his promise, and voted for him anyway.
Real Darwin Award shit.
load more comments
(5 replies)
I would trace it back to September 11, 2001 at least. Specifically, the highly authoritarian response to that. There's a direct line from what the US government started doing then to what they're doing now.
The patriot act was being prepared long before 9/11.
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(6 replies)
They decided to wait and see if Trump won, and if Homan then accepted bribes. It would be a much more airtight case. So the Biden people handed the investigation off to the Trump people, no doubt holding out the vain hope that the career people would persuade the political people that someone taking a bag of cash was something that ought to be investigated.
The fucking ineptitude of the Liberal elites never ceases to amaze me.
load more comments
(5 replies)
This headline is so fucking wrong it might as well be misinformation...
Like, it's the same flawed thinking that says there can't be a communist democracy.
We're 100% an oligarchy, and a sham if a democracy...
But that's not new at all, trump is just terrible at hiding shit.
Telling people "America isn't a democracy" like some just changed isn't helping anything
load more comments
(33 replies)
I mean, Princeton released a study over a decade that the U.S. was no longer a democracy but an oligarchy. I understand that the author means where descending into authoritarianism, but this didn't start with Trump, and we left democracy behind a long time ago.
The timing is worse than that. The study was only released in 2014, but it used data from 1981-2002, nearly 3 decades ago.
Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens | Perspectives on Politics | Cambridge Core - https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/abs/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B
Shit, I assumed that data was relatively recent to the study's publication. It doesn't even cover Citizens United!
There was a time when we considered countries where women couldn't vote as a "democracy"
The goal posts shifted. As they should.
In the 21st century, I don't think we can call a system without rank choice voting a democracy. The US has never met modern standards of a Democracy
load more comments
(4 replies)
view more: next ›