VoteNixon2016

Maybe I am, because no one's given me a better explanation of it than "having kids bad"

Just pulling straight from Wikipedia, "Antinatalism or anti-natalism is the philosophical value judgment that procreation is unethical or unjustifiable" and I can't see how that doesn't lead to the conclusion that the planet is better off with humans being extinct.

Every argument I've heard boils down to "it's easier just to die than to fix the problems that make life miserable, so we should all just die." If you want to give up, go ahead. I personally don't want to ever have kids, but I still want the world to be better for those who do.

Sorry, not at all how I meant that. It's being told not to have children that is scary and gives me the ick.

I don't want the world to get to a point where no one wants to have kids anymore. I recognize that a lot of things happening now make it really hard to stay optimistic, but we — humanity — are the only ones who can do anything to change it for the better. And given the choice between "we might as well give up and just die out as soon as possible" and "we need to do everything we can to give the next generation the best chance of surviving and thriving we can", I'll always choose the latter

Again, if it's your personal choice to not reproduce, that's totally fine, and I won't try to convince you otherwise.

As soon as you start telling other people though that producing offspring is inherently unethical and they're a bad, selfish person for making that decision, you're no different than the so-called "pro-life" groups, telling people that they're morally flawed and the cause of all the problems in the world because you don't agree with the choice they made about their reproductive system.

The options with antinatalism are:

1. No one reproduces and humans go extinct.
2. Someone has to make a decision regarding who can "ethically" reproduce to maintain some stable population level.

Option 1 is unacceptable to me because it means giving up, and at that point we might as well nuke everything to speed up the process of ending the suffering that is life. And if that's the outlook you have, I genuinely feel bad for you.

Option 2 is unacceptable because — surprise surprise — that's just eugenics dressed up as caring about the environment or something. And when you and your loved ones are part of groups that have historically been forcibly sterilized at best and sent to death camps at worst, you tend to have a negative opinion about any philosophy that ultimately labels some groups as unworthy of existing.

If you choose not to reproduce, that's fine, regardless of your reasons. It's no one's business.

But explain to me how you pick and choose who can or "should" reproduce without sounding like a eugenics enthusiast

Dropkick Murphys did an album using some of Woody Guthrie's unreleased or unused stuff, "Dig a Hole" gets a lot of plays from me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S18KrqrC01U

Language is wild, every time I see Dutch it takes a few seconds to process what I'm actually reading

There's a new album coming out this fall, three tracks were already released.

And honestly even if it gets delayed, what's another 6 months at this point

Can't believe you've got me supporting something hypothetical Trump did