moderatecentrist

Good answer. Many posts are people saying "my approach is the right one, other people are irredeemable morons who should burn in hell", but you're right, it depends on your perspective.

For me it's the top one. In a web browser, when using CSS and JavaScript, x is the horizontal axis, y is the vertical axis, and z is for depth. Hence the z-index CSS property which determines depth.

I would say the bottom one only makes sense if the stick figure were to hover in the air and look downwards. Then the z axis would be depth for him.

Absolutely true. I didn't mean to imply that you said that. I was just thinking about people on the left (not necessarily yourself) who didn't vote for Kamala because she wasn't critical enough of Israel. In America's political system, especially in swing states, not voting for the Democrat candidate makes it more likely that the Republican candidate will win.

I hope the US doesn't invade other countries. But I would say I can be wary of both the US and China at the same time.

Politicians can change their mind though if there is enough political pressure on them. I just think it's weird logic to think "I don't like what is happening in Gaza so I would rather see Trump elected to the White House than Kamala Harris". Since Trump has a history of being strongly pro-Israel and he doesn't seem to have a lot of sympathy for civilians who are suffering.

Almost immediately after coming to power in 2014, the Ukrainian government started banning opposition parties

There were still big pro-Russia parties so Ukrainians who liked the idea of stronger ties with Russia had parties they could vote for.

The whole situation is a tragedy and a mess.

That's very true.

they were shut out of the political process by having their parties banned

The banning of pro-Russia parties apparently happened after Russia launched its 2022 invasion of Ukraine, so the banning can't be a justification for the invasion.

we’re talking about grabbing people off the streets, giving them a rifle, and forcing them to the front

I hope that doesn't happen and I hope Ukrainian people can choose whether they want to fight or not. I also think though that Russia shouldn't be taking land and lives by force, and they also shouldn't be trying to install their own puppet regime in Kyiv.

If you thought Kamala wasn't paying enough attention to suffering in Palestine, you could have protested and lobbied her to pay more attention to this issue, while still voting for her as president, on the basis that Trump is even more pro-Israel and even less sympathetic to Palestinians.

Okay I said maybe we shouldn't talk about where we disagree but I think I disagree with those points about Ukraine. I think it was the elected parliament of Ukraine who voted to remove Yanukovych, rather than a "bunch of armed men" who voted. As for the Russian-backed referendums in the Donbas, I don't trust them myself, given Russia's history of ballot stuffing and the state deliberately harming political opponents.

I think the best outcome would be if the war immediately ends and then every oblast (in Ukraine and in Russia) could have a free and fair election regarding their future. If some Ukrainian oblasts vote in a free and fair election to join Russia then fair enough. In any case, unfortunately the war will very likely grind on.

Sure, I think Ukraine is a flawed democracy. More democratic than Russia in my estimation, but that isn't a high bar to clear. I hope Ukrainians can vote in the near future on whether to continue the war. Or alternatively the Ukrainian government should hopefully respect the results of reliable polling.

If you think your domestic priorities are more important than foreign issues, that's fair enough. When you claim Yanukovych's removal from power counts as an "overthrow", I'm not sure I agree with that, because Ukraine's parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from power. But anyway, maybe there is not much point in talking about where you and I disagree, because that could go on forever. I think we agree on some points, like the fact that Ukrainians are unfortunately suffering, and the fact that corporations (including defence companies) are too greedy, at the expense of hospitals and such like.

I agree with you that Ukrainians are suffering. Russians are too, under Putin's regime. But some other points you mentioned, I'm not sure how true they are:

my government supported the overthrow of the previous government

It's my understanding that Ukraine's parliament voted to remove President Yanukovych in 2014. Does this count as an "overthrow"? If the US Congress were to vote to remove Trump from power, which I believe is legally possible in the US, would that be an "overthrow"?

helped bring in a new government that was unwilling to have free and fair elections

TLDR of the following paragraph is that Ukraine has had two presidential elections since Yanukovych was removed from power, and both of those elections seem to have been more democratic than Russian "elections". Here goes: A new presidential election was held in 2014, which Poroshenko won, and then another was held in 2019, which Zelenskyy won. The OSCE, an organisation of the US, Canada, and European countries (including Russia) stated that the 2019 Ukrainian presidential election "was competitive, voters had a broad choice and turned out in high numbers. In the pre-electoral period the law was often not implemented in good faith by many stakeholders, which negatively impacted the trust in the election administration, enforcement of campaign finance rules, and the effectiveness of election dispute resolution. Fundamental freedoms were generally respected", etc. Maybe not a perfect election, but probably better than in Russia. In a Russian "election" in recent years, "Mr Putin's biggest critics were barred from running, and there were reports of ballot stuffing and forced voting". Here is an article from Reuters talking about ballot stuffing in Russia.

If they had stayed out of the war, then the people of eastern Ukraine would, at the very least, be shut out of any democratic process

I think pro-Russia people could participate in Ukraine's democracy though. Before 2014 there was the popular pro-Russia party the Party of Regions, and after 2014 there was the pro-Russia Opposition Bloc.

TLDR: I hope the war in Ukraine ends so that no more people die. I think Ukraine should be left alone to make their own democratic decisions though, without Russia invading them. The evidence that I've seen (news I've read) suggests that Ukraine, while not a perfect democracy, was relatively democratic up until Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine. Right now they're not having elections because of the war. Perhaps Ukrainians should be able to decide in the near future whether they want to continue the war or not.

You can be angry about your own government and that's completely fine. I am not a Trump fan myself. Regarding Saudi Arabia, yes there are reasons to be wary of their leadership, especially after Jamal Khashoggi's death.

Anyway, in my original question in this thread, I just asked if a person would condemn imperialism if it was done by Russia or China, in addition to condemning similar behaviour from the US or other western countries. If the US invades a country and kills civilians there then I definitely think that's wrong - civilians should be able to live in peace. Likewise I think it's wrong if Russia invades Ukraine and kills civilians there. With China, they may take over Taiwan by force in the near future. Likewise if the US were to take over a territory by force (perhaps the Philippines again), I would think that's wrong.