this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2025
405 points (98.8% liked)

Technology

77084 readers
2625 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

An engineer got curious about how his iLife A11 smart vacuum worked and monitored the network traffic coming from the device. That’s when he noticed it was constantly sending logs and telemetry data to the manufacturer — something he hadn't consented to. The user, Harishankar, decided to block the telemetry servers' IP addresses on his network, while keeping the firmware and OTA servers open. While his smart gadget worked for a while, it just refused to turn on soon after. After a lengthy investigation, he discovered that a remote kill command had been issued to his device.

(page 2) 36 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

remote kill command had been issued to his device.

What the actual fuck?!

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 2 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah, mine has it. I have to go into the app once a week and manually delete it.

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 0 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Smart vaccuum that needs an app to use. Are we really this stupid, everyone?

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago

Hello friend.

This seems like a good time to inform you that you have the option to communicate in such a way that you don't make yourself look like an asshole.

[–] notsure@fedia.io 7 points 1 day ago

...when i 'buy' something, should i not own and be able to use it and all functions until the end of it's mechanical processes?..

[–] tabular@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Libre alternative?

[–] notreallyhere@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

while this is good, we really don't need all these smart devices in the first place

[–] stiffyGlitch@lemmy.world -1 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

what...? how much money did that Roomba cost for him to spend that much time and effort on recoding it?!

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 0 points 20 hours ago (4 children)

Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

I have a standard vacuum. I spend about 10 minutes a day vacuuming. Miele has no telemetry whatsoever lol

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I spend about 10 minutes a day vacuuming

[–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 0 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Yes and the point being spending 300$+ to eliminate 10 minutes a day is absolutely hilarious.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] aceshigh@lemmy.world 0 points 20 hours ago (12 children)

As a layman, can someone explain what the ramifications of smart devices sharing your data is. I know it’s bad, but I don’t understand why it’s bad and how it’s used against you.

[–] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 0 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

The problem that is created by a person's private data being collected against their will is primarily a philosophical one similar to the "principle of least privilege", which you may be familiar with. The idea is that those collecting the data have no reasonable need for access to it in order to provide the services they're providing, so their collection of that information can only be for something other than the user's benefit, but the user gets nothing in exchange for it. The user is paying for the product/service they get, so the personal data is just a bonus freebie that the vendor is making off with. If the personal data is worthless, then there is no need to collect it, and if it does have worth, they are taking something of value without paying for it, which one might call stealing, or at least piracy. To many, this is already enough to cry foul, but we haven't even gotten into the content and use of the collected data yet.

There is a vibrant marketplace among those in the advertising business for this personal data. There are brokers and aggregators of this data with the goal of correlating every data point they have gotten from every device and app they can find with a specific person. Even if no one individual detail or set of details presents a risk or identifies who the specific person is, they use computer algorithms to analyze all the data, narrowing it down to exactly one individual, similar to the way the game "20 questions" works to guess what object the player is thinking of--they can pick literally any object or concept in the whole world, and in 20 questions or less, the other player can often guess it. If you imagine the advertisers doing this, imagine how successful they would be at guessing who a person is if they can ask unlimited questions forever until there can be no doubt; that is exactly what the algorithm reading the collected data can do.

There was an infamous example of Target (the retailer) determining a young girl was pregnant before she told anyone or even knew herself, and created a disastrous home situation for her by sending her targeted maternity marketing materials to her house, which was seen by her abusive family.

These companies build what many find to be disturbingly invasive dossiers on individuals, including their private health information, intimacy preferences, and private personal habits, among other things. The EFF did a write-up many years ago with creepy examples of basic metadata collection that I found helpful to my understanding of the problem here:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/why-metadata-matters?rss=1

Companies have little to no obligation to treat you fairly or even do business with, allowing them to potentially create a downright exile situation for you if they have decided you belong on some "naughty list" because of an indicator given to them by an algorithm that analyzed your info. They can also take advantage of widely known weaknesses in human psychology to influence you in ways that you don't even realize, but are undeniably unethical and coercive. Also, it creates loopholes for bad actors in government to exploit. For example, in my country (USA), the police are forbidden from investigating me if I am not suspected of a crime, but they can pay a data broker $30 for a breakdown of everything I like, everything I do, and everywhere I've been. If it was sound government policy to allow arbitrary investigation of anyone regardless of suspicion, then ask yourself why every non-authoritarian government forbids it.

I know that's a lot; it is a complicated topic that is hard to understand the implications of. Unfortunately, everyone that could most effectively work to educate everyone on those risks is instead exploiting their ignorance for a wide variety of purposes. Some of those purposes are innocuous, but others are ethically dubious, and many more are just objectively nefarious. To be clear, the reason for the laws against blanket investigations was to prevent the dubious and nefarious uses, because once that data is collected, it isn't feasible to ensure it will stay in the right hands. The determination was that potential net good of this kind of data collection is far outweighed by the potential net negatives.

I hope that helps!

[–] Lvdwsn@lemmy.world 1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

You might get some snarky comments, but the way I envision it is that the fuller of a picture companies can get of you (when you’re running a vacuum, when you’re driving, when your lights are on and off, etc.) the more data they have to try and run predictive analytics on your behavior and that can be used in a variety of ways that may or may not benefit you. At this point it’s mostly just to get you to buy things they think you’ll buy, but what happens when your profile starts to match up with someone who commits crimes? Maybe you get harassed by the authorities a little more often? Generally the lack of consent around how the data is collected and how it’s used is the problem most people have.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago

what happens when your profile starts to match up with someone who commits crimes?

I'd dismiss this as fanciful ten years ago. But we've got ICE agents staking out grocery stores and flea markets looking for anyone passably "illegal". Palantir seems to have made a trillion dollar business model out of promising an idiot president the ability to Minority Report crime. And then you've got the Israeli's Lavendar AI and "Where's Daddy" programs, intended to facilitate murdering suspects by bombing the households of relatives.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to be a little bit more paranoid.

[–] underisk@lemmy.ml 0 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Email me the blueprints to your house, your address, name, and your favorite hobbies and I will tell you the answer.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–] imetators@lemmy.dbzer0.com -5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's like a month old news article

No one should be outraged. That is how all robovacs are working - use LIDAR to map area -> send back to server -> server calculates optimal cleaning route -> sends back info to vac -> vac cleans. Vac cant ping back to server - server thinks vac is dead. No killswitch is needed.

Also, app is not a necessity except we are forced to use it. But many would not like to lose an ability to track progress or start and stop cleaning from their phone outside of the home network. For these features, app and external server is a must.

The only real issue with robo vacs is that it is an IoT device. We should make manufacturers and brands to let us choose if we want to selfhost their software. But that would never happen.

This article IMO is full of bs and ragebait.

[–] nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What I don't understand is why the person that owns the device wrote the following in their blog post:

How could a simple IP block disable a vacuum cleaner that is supposed to work offline as well? - Source

This seems like that device was sold to him as "offline" capable. Where does that claim even come from? From a cursory glance I don't see that product advertised that way anywhere.

Now, I'd be totally in favor that such devices working offline should be the norm, but then again, the person writing the blog should know how these devices currently work.

[–] imetators@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Say, if he got it because it was advertised as an offline device then why would he connect it to wifi anyway? The more I read this article, the more questionable this so called "IT specialist" is.

This is how it has been for a long time - robovacs do talk to a server. Should it? Not necessary. But they undeniably do.

load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›