this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2025
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[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 23 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Ya but we have the ten commandments in classrooms! Check mate

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 points 7 hours ago

And the nations Press Secretary to the President did a degree on a softball scholarship. Fusion power imminent!

[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 16 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (2 children)

The EU should secure a deal with Taiwan. The US has already tried to extort money of Taiwan by threatening the removal of protection. For the sake of democracy's power and prosperity, the EU should offer to officially protect Taiwan. Having access to quality chips is key to all sorts of things.

Anyhow, the channel 'Asianometry', has a video covering the physics of EUV machines. They are an incredible linchpin of our modern world.

The Extreme Engineering of ASML’s EUV Light Source

[–] General_Effort@lemmy.world 7 points 10 hours ago

The EU does not have the military capacity to protect Taiwan.

That's not mentioning that the EU is not a military alliance. That's the first political challenge to tackle.

Anyhow, the channel ‘Asianometry’, has a video covering the physics of EUV machines. They are an incredible linchpin of our modern world.

So true. This stuff is absolutely mind-blowing. Especially if you are old enough to remember how some of that seemed like almost unsurmountable problems. Now the solution are used in mass production.

[–] narinciye@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

In the meanwhile, EU also have to focus on manufacturing of the chips themselves in the long run, instead of depending on a 20 million nation.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 points 7 hours ago

The technology behind these 4nm chips and most of the lithography technology comes from EU.

[–] utopiah@lemmy.world 7 points 14 hours ago

Meanwhile ASML just stops doing R&D and give up on its extremely specialized supply chain. /s

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 14 points 17 hours ago

Haven't China also claimed a lot of impossible tasks like Cold Fusion, cure for cancer, and breaking most modern encryptions?

Might want to remain skeptical for now.

[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 14 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

Cut off a nation as big and determined as China and they will just become more self sufficient.

[–] lechekaflan@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago

Given how the US has become more and more isolated as it turns hostile towards immigrants and what is called the Global South, of course the Mainland Chinese will befriend and establish trading deals with any country alienated by Trump. Like, for example, Taliban Afghanistan's mineral deposits.

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[–] trolololol@lemmy.world 84 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

when discussing when China could catch up to the US in the semiconductor race.

BS. Untied states are not competitive at all for a long time. They should say China is catching up with Taiwan.

And it's not a race, there's no finish line, improvements have been happening for 50 years now and can continue for decades.

[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 3 points 12 hours ago

These machines are made only here. They are owned by a company in the Netherlands, though.

[–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 24 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

That's just the imperialists telling on themselves. They don't consider what is Taiwan's as Taiwan's, but as being made exclusively for the US' benefit.

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[–] snoons@lemmy.ca 71 points 1 day ago (9 children)

If you were wondering what the hell EUV (Extreme Ultra-Violet) stood for:

https://waferscope.com/duv-vs-euv-whats-the-real-difference-in-chipmaking/

This table from the link sums it up pretty well:

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 39 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Using shorter and shorter wavelengths of light to etch chips with a higher density of transistors.

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 2 points 10 hours ago

Less material for greater performance, for those that want more simplicity.

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[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Okay but Japan had a major breakthrough the other day that made this technique obsolete for the majority of components.

I mean if every headline about massive breakthroughs was the full truth all our appliances would be powered by tiny nuclear power plants and we would fly around with our jetpack. Cancer would be but a distant memory and world hunger a non issue because vertical farms would be literally in every home.

[–] little_tuptup@lemmy.ml 2 points 18 hours ago

so, no jetpacks?

[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 28 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Average East-Asian news cycle:

China: “We are preventing the export of rare earth minerals to strengthen our country.”

US: “We are imposing tariffs to strengthen our economy.”

Japan: “22-year-old undergraduate turns a leaf into a battery.”

[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 3 points 14 hours ago

German-Japanese scientist:

[–] eleijeep@piefed.social 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What was the Japanese breakthrough? Got a link?

[–] T4V0@lemmy.pt 10 points 1 day ago (6 children)
[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 7 hours ago

Ok in a lab, but saying they will scale by 2027 is pure fiction.

[–] justaman123@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago

Can someone smarter than me or at least more informed explain how this compares

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[–] panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 day ago (13 children)

What happens to Taiwan when China is competitive on chips?

I could see them deciding to invade, Taiwan destroys their fabs, and then China gets a monopoly but also sanctions.

The west ultimately ends up unable to build chips and China has a global monopoly.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

Cutting edge chip making is several different processes all stacked together. The nations that are roughly aligned with the western capitalist order have split up responsibilities across many, many different parts of this, among many different companies with global presence.

The fabrication itself needs to tie together several different processes controlled by different companies. TSMC in Taiwan is the current dominant fab company, but it's not like there isn't a wave of companies closely behind them (Intel in the US, Samsung in South Korea).

There's the chip design itself. Nvidia, Intel, AMD, Apple, Qualcomm, Samsung, and a bunch of other ARM licensees are designing chips, sometimes with the help of ARM itself. Many of these leaders are still American companies developing the design in American offices. ARM is British. Samsung is South Korean.

Then there's the actual equipment used in the fabs. The Dutch company ASML is the most famous, as they have a huge lead on the competition in manufacturing photolithography machines (although old Japanese competitors like Nikon and Canon want to get back in the game). But there are a lot of other companies specializing in specific equipment found in those labs. The Japanese company Tokyo Electron and the American companies Applied Materials and Lam Research, are in almost every fab in the West.

Once the silicon is fabricated, the actual packaging of that silicon into the little black packages to be soldered onto boards is a bunch of other steps with different companies specializing in different processes relevant to that.

Plus advanced logic chips aren't the only type of chips out there. There are analog or signal processing chips, or power chips, or other useful sensor chips for embedded applications, where companies like Texas Instruments dominate on less cutting edge nodes, and memory/storage chips, where the market is dominated by 3 companies, South Korean Samsung and SK Hynix, and American company Micron.

TSMC is only one of several, standing on a tightly integrated ecosystem that it depends on. It also isn't limited to only being located in Taiwan, as they own fabs that are starting production in the US, Japan, and Germany.

China is working at trying to replace literally every part of the chain in domestic manufacturing. Some parts are easier than others to replace, but trying to insource the whole thing is going to be expensive, inefficient, and risky. Time will tell whether those costs and risks are worth it, but there's by no means a guarantee that they can succeed.

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