this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2026
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[–] katze@lemmy.4d2.org 1 points 11 hours ago

Why is this so badly written?

[–] mangobanana@discuss.online 6 points 1 day ago

And the ring that kills me is how disingenious the whole ai thing is. It's not really artificial intelligence, it's basically really really fast computing. And I hate that they have named absolutely everything computer related "AI". Please, it's not fucking AI, not in the true sense of the word

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 135 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

There's no legitimate purpose for destroying these books.

There are non-invasive ways scan books. But the destruction is an added bonus. These companies make a copy of these public domain books and then pulp the remains. They're rare, so that means they're hard to find (that's what rare means, after all).

Then, they can turn around and sell their dataset to AI companies.

The destruction is the point.

Capitalism always creates perverse incentives. The most profitable thing you can do is seize something readily available and make it impossible to get without paying you.

But which companies are doing this? It sounds like these are companies that supply training data to AI companies. I think we need names.

[–] HerbGrower@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 day ago

If its public domain couldn't anyone else with a copy make it freely available

[–] kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 2 days ago (2 children)

They destroy them to comply with fair use laws. A judge in San Francisco ruled this practice as fair use.

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[–] zbyte64@awful.systems 5 points 1 day ago

Like the mangrove forests in Africa and Asia. Scarcity is a feature, not a bug.

I misread that as:

The most profitable thing you can do is seize someone readily available [...]

... and realized that also tracks.

[–] FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 55 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

It would be slightly less horrrible if they released the digitized books online, or even just paid archivist organizations to carefully do the job for them and make public the works to then train on.

But no. They choose the worst way to do everything.

[–] trackball_fetish@lemmy.wtf 15 points 2 days ago

And worse if you do it to benefit humanity (see: internet archive) they'll sue you into oblivion or come for your neck. Even mobsters benefited their communities somewhat while doing heinous things.

[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Except this is different. That book burning was due to ideological reasons. This one is due to pure greed and disregard for collective knowledge

[–] WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 6 points 2 days ago

Even really evil people respect knowledge.

These aren't people.

[–] FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You're right, it is different, the AI companies are misled into thinking this will generate some sort of profit but the Chinese were just doing it from a place of pure malice.

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[–] Asetru@feddit.org 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So you're arguing that capitalism and its greed are not an ideology?

[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 day ago

Of course it's an ideology, but it's the ideology that enables the greed. The greed would exist with or without it.

When billionaire oligarchs destroy the planet and people's lives in order to make themselves richer, they're not doing it on ideological ground. Most of them don't care about ideology. Their ideology is just how they brainwash the public into voting for politicians who will help them continue to dominate the economy.

[–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 73 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Not AI Companies, but billionaires. They have names, they're people, and we shouldn't let them hide behind "company". These are some of the people fucking us all over for nothing but their own hubris. They have too much power and money, they're delusional, and they need to be taxed, regulated, and stopped:


Sam Altman, Open AI


Sundar Pichai, Alphabet, Google


Clay Magouyrk, Oracle


Mark Zuckerberg, Meta, Facebook

[–] zuch0698o@lemmy.world 30 points 2 days ago

Oracle is owned by the Ellison family.

[–] msage@programming.dev 16 points 2 days ago

What about Amodei of Anthropic?

[–] Monkey@piefed.social 22 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)
[–] PerfectDark@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

That and the ending (V for Vendetta) were the sections I wrote in this article. Because as soon as I saw the news, it was all I could think of :(

[–] vext01@feddit.uk 65 points 2 days ago (8 children)

Not nice to see books being destroyed, but this part, I'm sure, will upset people:

Lastly, and most importantly, if you use these AI chatbots, you are complicit.

For some people the choice to use a bot or not is a choice of having the job, or not.

[–] Dojan@pawb.social 49 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

but this part, I'm sure, will upset people

I don't know that that's a bad thing. If you use these models, you are complicit; you're part of creating the "need" for these models. You don't necessarily have a choice (because realistically losing your job and all the stuff that entails isn't a real choice, and that's fully part of how the system is intended to work), but you're still complicit.

We as individuals don't have a lot of power, because power is mostly tied to some kind of capital. That's why working together is so important, because it's only by working together we'll have any real power to impact things.

I don't think being upset is a bad thing. Recognise it, and do something about it. It could be something small like talking to colleagues about it, or contacting a union representative, or a politician. Or go big, no shame in that either.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It’s complicity under duress, essentially. Which is shitty in a few different directions.

[–] Dojan@pawb.social 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Exactly, it's built on systemic violence, in that when you don't have a job you're rendered more or less useless to society and left to wither by the wayside. Thus it is in the individuals immediate best interest to keep working with, thus enforcing these systems.

Worrying about anything beyond the immediate is for those with means, unfortunately.

I live in Sweden. I grew up a povvo bitch, but I've managed to do well for myself over the years. Even so, I don't have anything to fall back on. If I lost my job I'd luckily have unemployment, through my union and various labour rights, but that too has a limit.

I get why people wouldn't want to fight back, which is what leads to doomerism and wishes to just burn the entire system to the ground in the hopes of building something better next time. Which I get too, I feel that all the time; improvement seems unlikely given the perpetual decline I've witnessed my entire life. Even so, I contact politicians, and I engage with my union.

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[–] PerfectDark@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago

"For some people the choice to use a bot or not is a choice of having the job, or not."

That would be Gardiner's side of the article. I contributed by wroting two sections on this one:

  • The Shadow of Fahrenheit 451, and
  • “People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.”

Just to explain whose take is whose for this little article, at least.

[–] terabyterex@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

its silly, i use a phone but i dont want it made with child labor. there is no need to destroy the books.

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[–] NewOldGuard@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago

But hey at least in return we get insecure buggy slop software and soulless facsimiles of art!

[–] BouteilleBrune@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago

sad dystopian sci-real story

[–] BaraCoded@literature.cafe 15 points 2 days ago

Ok, it really is Luigi time right fucking now.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)
  1. They didn't just start

  2. People have been talking about this for months.

It's really getting old how many people are starting to act like trump. And just assume if they just heard about something, no one else has.

It sounds like a minor thing, but it's a huge red flag that people don't have base levels of empathy.

[–] a1tsca13@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

For every person who has heard about it, there are many more who have not. It's important to have these conversations so that we as a society can make decisions about what we value; only when a critical mass of individuals have awareness can we work together toward common goals.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yeah. And you can easily phrase a headline like that...

That it had been going on for a while and people should pay attention...

But they didn't.

Which is why I mentioned it.

Edit:

For example:

https://lemmy.world/post/50060570?scrollToComments=true

There is a difference between headlines, and it shouldn't be surprising the major network is more professional and accurate than a blog.

[–] marius@feddit.org 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I've read somewhere that it has to do with copyright, i.e. if you destroy the original, then it's not a copy and therefore allowed

[–] Ajen@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago

No, it's far cheaper to scan a stack of loose papers than it is to scan a bound book, that's why they're cutting the pages out. And most of the books aren't that valuable, even if they're rare. So it's an accounting decision to destroy the books.

[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

And they are providing the OCR'd text free of charge to the masses, right? Right?

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

Any examples of those rare books?

Edit: of course not, what an absolute shit article. "If you don't dislike trashing a book you're a bad person!!!" Basically. What an ignorant idea. The article linked in the first "article" (the first contains 0 information) isn't much better, large companies buy books nobody wants, scans them and discards them.

Guess what librarians worldwide do? Well they don't scan the books before sending them for recycling.

So an overly emotional trash headline to generate that sweet anger and engagement IMO.

[–] Tim_Bisley@piefed.social 6 points 2 days ago

Still plenty to be pissed about though. As someone who does archiving it's still enraging because they are destroying thousands of books not for archival where you destroy one copy to provide access to all, but to copy the book, rewrite it, and sell it back to you.

There's now less copies of said book, it wasn't archived, they stole that content, and are now selling it back to you. People will then take this stolen content and act like it's something they created and then try to turn profit. It makes every copyright argument the publishers have ever made look like a joke. Why do publishing companies even exist?

[–] waveyvibes@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Where did you get the idea that these were only books that no-one cared about? I re-read the article and didn't find anything where they specified the type of rare books collected, scanned and destroyed

[–] CovertOperative@piefed.zip 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

The first time I heard about this was from this article: https://www.srf.ch/kultur/gesellschaft-religion/jagd-auf-alte-buecher-ki-firmen-kaufen-antiquariate-leer-und-vernichten-die-buecher

A translated quote from it:

"Not rarities, but the exact opposite," the dealer reports: “What specifically was bought were nonfiction titles from 1970 onward with ISBN numbers—dusty, unsold stock that no one had wanted for years. Resale is completely out of the question: The books are worthless, and for each title only exactly one copy was purchased.”

That article still tries to frame this as "Rare antique books are going to be lost forever".

[–] waveyvibes@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 hours ago

Thank you for pulling that up and helping to make it more clear

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago

In the title of this post for starters, but even if it's true, the post is just ragebait crap.

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