this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2026
14 points (81.8% liked)

Fuck AI

7560 readers
840 users here now

"We did it, Patrick! We made a technological breakthrough!"

A place for all those who loathe AI to discuss things, post articles, and ridicule the AI hype. Proud supporter of working people. And proud booer of SXSW 2024.

AI, in this case, refers to LLMs, GPT technology, and anything listed as "AI" meant to increase market valuations.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I was looking into the Alan Turing and his Turing test as he proposed and reading some books. I feel skeptical regarding the fact that we have even reached at the level of Artificial Intelligence. It feels like we have not created a Turing machine yet.

top 22 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 29 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

The Turing machine, and the Turing test are two very different things. They've been both coined by Alan Turing. But a Turing machine doesn't have anything to do with AI. It's a computer that can do any possible maths calculation. But it requires infinite memory. And since nothing is infinite in the real world, it doesn't exist. (Einstein might disagree.)

The Turing test, or "imitation game" is a hypothetical experiment setup. At least it was hypothetical back in the day. It tells us whether some machine can imitate human dialogue well enough to fool someone into thinking they're talking to a human.

[–] groet@feddit.org 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The "test" is so vague we had machines pass I many years before the current LLM AIs. But it is also always limited by the scope of the AI. Can you play a game of chess against a chessbot, where after the game you are unable to tell if it was a bot or a human? Can you chat with an LLM and think it is a human? Can you chat with a chessbot and think it is human. Can you have a face to face dinner at a restaurant with an LLM and think it is a human? Can you have a LLM drive a car and think it is human?

AI are able to fool us in their specific area of expertise but so far never in all areas at once.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I think so as well. It comes with some kind of implication on how the result of the imitation game is supposed to mean something. But it doesn't. There's no good/scientific way to see how something is able to fool a human observer and then conclude that thing is something... Or has specific attributes... I mean other than it's able to fool a human in this specific experiment setup. There's just a huge gap in reasoning after the experiment. I think it's mostly what it is, a spin on a party game.

And yes. So far all we've seen is narrow AI. That's the term for an artificial thing which can do some specific tasks it's been trained for. You can never teach ChatGPT to drive a car properly. You'd have to design a new AI for that. And that one will probably not be able to load the dishwasher... In fact I've never seen any robot be able to do simple things like load a dishwasher. They regularly tip over while doing it or put in just 3 plates as a demo... While I as a human have a broader bandwidth of things I'm capable of. And I can transfer my knowledge to entirely new things and/or successfully learn about them. While current AI is very limited in doing that.

I think there might be some prospect of AI becoming more universal. Maybe one day we'll see general (/strong) AI. But as of today that's utter science fiction. Nobody has a clue how to make AI learn all by itself about new concepts, without feeding it in in the factory. They'll have to figure out how to make it learn while running, and not take it down and release a new ChatGPT every half a year. Adapt and change, remember things... That's all huge, unsolved engineering problems. I suspect to become properly useful for a lot of real-world tasks we gotta merge robotics and AI some more... But maybe that's not strictly necessary, depending on how we define the concept. But it's hard to come up with an experiment setup to test for all the things humans can possibly do. Or choose the correct subset of tasks to make the comparison mean something. But I'm fairly positive it's going to take a decade or more before we're anywhere close. If that's even possible. It's a bit difficult to judge since we don't know how to design strong AI on a human level, what compute power it'd need etc.

Till then, we're stuck with chatbots which can mimick text and learn some from ingesting it, maybe oneday self-driving cars, chessbots, smart thermostats... I mean these things can solve tasks. (Some better than others.) But what does that mean? Probably not a lot, if you're looking at a smart thermostat and how that's able to get the temperature just right, but you expect it to somehow turn into Commander Data from Star Trek.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

To add a bit to this: I don't see a reason to stay "skeptical" about this. It's an experiment. And it's not even hard to set it up. You can just try and learn the answer to it.

It's a bit tricky since some details are vague and there's some variations of it. It's more a party game than written down with mathematical precision, like other texts from Turing.

What I'd be sceptical of, is the implications of it. And claims from big companies who have a vested interest in promoting their products. It's not really influential science until it's been replicated by other (independant) researchers and been peer-reviewed.

[–] call_me_xale@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Adam Turing

I think you mean "Alan", friend

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 5 points 2 days ago

thx! corrected.

[–] smiletolerantly@awful.systems 10 points 2 days ago

The comments in here are confusing. To state it plainly:

Turing machines have nothing to do with the Turing test. They're two completely different things/concepts, just named after the same guy.

[–] red_tomato@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The idea with Turing machine is that anything a Turing machine can do, a computer can also do. It is a mathematical construct representing a computer. He used it to prove that some problems can’t be solved with computation alone (halting problem is one of these), thus proving there’s fundamental limitations to computing.

Turing test is mostly an interesting thought experiment. Don’t read too much into it.

[–] Naive@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

well I am a computer science student and AI is quite trending subsection of CS so I wanna be really educated so that I don't get fooled by tech bros

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Pay attention to your professors, then. I guess they're about to teach you what a Turing machine is. And what "AI" is, though from my experience, that term isn't thrown around in CS nearly as much. It's kind of a buzzword, and intelligence is ill-defined... Instead you'd get a lecture on machine learning, or deep learning or whatever. And you'll get a headache from all the maths and statistics required to do machine learning. It's not all that hard. But it can get involved. There's also a fascinating history to learn. "AI" didn't always mean ChatGPT.

[–] dumnezero@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago

scamming skill test

[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

The Turing Test is somewhat incomplete and outdated, created in years when AI was still more theoretical than real (1950). Current AIs can perfectly pass this test, so other tests are used that better fit current technology, even so the results remain debatable.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The Turing test is more showing how well a program can convince a person they are human. Clearly the past few years has shown that people can be easily fooled in many ways. The test was never meant as an indication of intelligence behind the messages, only whether or not they were good simulations of human discussion. The 2025 version of ChatGPT rated 73% on such tests, and I imagine it and other LLMs might do even better now with the extra tools they use to help context and memory. They still aren't "thinking". They're doing something though, and the usual "just a complex autocomplete" dismissal isn't recognizing that.

[–] Naive@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I heard that the current version of Turing test is not what Alan Turing himself proposed originally.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 days ago

It's all bulllshit. There is no "AI".

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)
  • Turing Machine - Groundbreaking mathematical/CS advancement fundamental to the development of computers.
  • Turing Test - Vague analogy hyped by pseudo-scientific grifters (aka the "AI" industry).
[–] lime@feddit.nu 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] Naive@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Is current AI the Turing machine or not?

[–] shirro@aussie.zone 1 points 1 day ago

All digital computers are Turing machines.

[–] lime@feddit.nu 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

a turing machine is a theoretical device that can perform any computation. a language model is a set of matrix multiplications that takes a list of words and gives back the statistically most likely next word.

your question is like asking if novels have become language.

[–] Naive@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] lime@feddit.nu 2 points 2 days ago

sorry i should have expanded on that:

turing machines are conceptual, like language. they are a theoretical means to formalise and generalise an idea (meaningful computation/communication).

language models are real, like novels. they are one possible use of the concept (word prediction/telling a story).

a novel is a specific implementation of some parts of the idea of language, like a language model is a specific implementation of some parts of the idea of computation embodied by the turing machine concept.