this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2026
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136
Smart devices can testify against you: How home robot data is being used in court (www.the-independent.com)
submitted 7 hours ago by Mustachius_Grumpius@thelemmy.club to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 2 points 25 minutes ago* (last edited 23 minutes ago)

Soon, every fuckin' thing you buy that plugs in will have an app, and demand to connect to the internet, and do it's damnedest to make that happen, whether you let it or not. There's probably a generic, dedicated chipset or board that does just this available for OEM purchase that they just wire into whatever they're building. Fans, speakers, TVs and monitors, every appliance, lights, clocks, push vacuums, pet feeders, smoke alarms, anything you can think of. They'll add some feature that no one wants to justify the camera, mic and internet connection. Or, they'll just hide it, because whatever law might be used against them for doing that would not be strong enough to outweigh the profits, if it's enforced at all.

If you have old appliances without these "features", do your best to keep them working.

This won't stop until we kick the capitalist out of our governments.

[–] nbsp@programming.dev 13 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

smart device... more like... narc device ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

[–] Kirp123@lemmy.world 2 points 29 minutes ago

Imagine getting snitched on by your Roomba. Fuck that noise, my broom ain't snitching on me.

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 hour ago

Alexa, what is an 'attack surface'?

... hrm ...

Alexa, widen scope of 'threat actors'.

Oh.

Oh dear.

[–] susieq0044@sh.itjust.works 19 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (2 children)

A smart home is in reality a vulnerable home, and a smart device a vulnerable device. Reduce their use as much as possible.

[–] cynar@lemmy.world 18 points 2 hours ago (3 children)

Smart home stuff can be done right.

  • You need to focus on the use case. Is what it is doing actually necessary? E.g. smart lights are amazingly useful, smart washing machine? Why?!?

  • The S in IoT stands for security. Smart devices need to be treated as security risks. Mine have their own WiFi to play on. They don't get to play with my important devices. Also, internet access is a privilege, not a right. ZigBee is often superior to WiFi too. Control the bridge and you have absolute control of their internet access.

  • Open source for the win. A lot of IoT options can run open source firmware. This helps break open the black boxes and let you see if they are doing bad things. Home assistant, EspHome, and Tasmota are the big 3 to look into.

  • If you're not the customer, you're the product. Google etc sell smart speakers at a loss. If you must have them, treat them as actively hostile. I'm still trying to find a good alternative to some of their functions, but getting there.

[–] Zagorath@quokk.au 3 points 59 minutes ago

Also, internet access is a privilege, not a right. ZigBee is often superior to WiFi too

I'm setting up a smarthome from scratch the last few days. After having Philips Hues and a Google Home for ages at my previous home, my new place has downlights rather than edison screws so none of my lights work and after a year I'm finally trying things out properly. Got a server with Home Assistant and border routers for Thread and Zigbee, bought a bunch of no-brand Zigbee downlights and Ikea sensors with Matter over Thread. No wifi is a hard requirement for me. For security reasons and for performance. I don't want a dozen extraneous devices littering my wifi network.

[–] IphtashuFitz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Smart washing machine: ours is in the basement and my wife and I used to regularly forget we had laundry in it. I now have Home Assistant text us when a load is complete. But it only texts us if we are home and can do something about it. If nobody is home it waits until one of us gets home to text us.

BUT: The washer and dryer are still dumb, pre-IoT generation. I built light sensors that are taped to the displays, and Home Assistant relies on those to determine if the appliances are on or off. No need for cloud-based monitoring, etc. A little creativity like that can work just as well or better than a convenient cloud-based solution.

[–] cynar@lemmy.world 3 points 58 minutes ago

I've considered that, for the same reasons. My machines are obnoxious enough to be heard through half the house on their own however.

The built in smart ones seem to be the worst of all worlds. They farm you for data, while not providing much of use. They try to tie you into ecosystems, that stop you using the data elsewhere.

My solution was going to be to monitor current draw, via a power monitoring plug, running Tasmota. Once it's below a threshold for long enough, send an alert.

[–] nkat2112@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I am stunned by the brilliance of this comment. I'm taking notes. Thank you @cynar@lemmy.world for sharing this.

[–] cynar@lemmy.world 4 points 53 minutes ago (1 children)

I've been playing with my smart home for years now. I'm well past the "oh wow" honeymoon phase and into the "just do your job" phase.

I forgot to mention WAF, Wife Acceptance Factor. Any smart system should fall back to a dumb one, if something goes wrong. E.g. You should never require WiFi to turn your lights on. There should always be a switch that will just work. Central control computer crashes? The wife is annoyed the house is now just dumb, not that the house is now dead.

[–] nkat2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 45 minutes ago (1 children)

Thank you so much for that tip as well. You also have a great sense of humour, which I'm certain your wife appreciates! (Assuming the use of WAF was meant from your perspective - I apologise if I'm wrong.)

[–] cynar@lemmy.world 1 points 25 minutes ago

A bit of both. It's a mindset that keeps me from doing anything too stupid, and a good one to pass on to others. I can play around, so long as I don't make her life harder.

It mostly stops me putting brittle, or janky setups into use. I need to actually streamline and ruggedise them. I benefit from that too, in the long run.

[–] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 6 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

I would say the way that most people use smart devices, yes. But if you have the time and patience to select the correct smart devices and set them up properly, you're fine.

Of course, people are lazy, so for most folks, inviting Google Alex or Nest into their house leads to...chicanery.

PS: pick a robot vacuum cleaner that can work without sending shit to someone else's server. And make your own "Alexa"

[–] Zagorath@quokk.au 3 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

if you have the time and patience to select the correct smart devices and set them up properly, you’re fine

Yup. If your smart devices use Thread or Zigbee (specifically not wifi—though wifi can be ok too if you use an entirely separate network for smart things) to communicate to a Home Assistant server in your home, the security and privacy risks and minimal.

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 hour ago

Thread? Zigbee?

No no no, you want either Parasol, GwimGwab, or Hamtato.

Haven't you heard of them?

[–] susieq0044@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

You are right. And always consider the worst case scenario. When my father-in-law ended up in hospital, I had to take care of his apartment, and I couldn’t find out how to turn the lights on. It took me 15 minutes to understand his remote control 🤪

[–] SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zone 2 points 1 hour ago

Ah - been there, done that as well.

[–] doomsel@lemmy.world 28 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

Thats why my robovac runs valetudo https://valetudo.cloud/

[–] VibeSurgeon@piefed.social 3 points 1 hour ago

Valetudo runs alongside the existing software on the robot vacuum though, does it not?

[–] whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 hours ago

Nice, now I still have to chose a model

[–] beep@piefed.world 3 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Actual article, by The Conversion.

[–] brem@lemmy.world 9 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Thankfully, everything I am surrounded with has a reason to plead insanity.

[–] brem@lemmy.world 5 points 4 hours ago

Hereby, I now submit to the court, Exhibit X! My first edition copy of "How To Stop Worrying And Start Living"

Jury gasps

And it's companion piece, "How To Win Friends And Influence People", also a first edition

Jury begins vomiting on each other, furiously

May I now request that Exhibit X approach the bench?

Judge becomes visibly moist

[–] saltnotsugar@lemmy.world 4 points 5 hours ago

RUNNING OBJECTION.EXE YOUR HONOR.