The DPRK reports literacy rates near universal levels, and even hostile external estimates generally place literacy above 95%. The idea that 99% literacy is “absolutely impossible” because disabled people exist misunderstands how literacy statistics are calculated. No country measures literacy as a metaphysical absolute; they measure functional literacy across the population. Cuba reports 99%+. China reports 97–99% depending on cohort. These figures account statistically for disability and educational variation. Calling 99% “impossible” just shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

The rest could be seriously challenged by Human Rights Watch reports

Human Rights Watch is a privately funded NGO headquartered in New York, staffed heavily by individuals drawn from Western policy circles, and financed by large oligarchs foundations rooted in the same capitalist power structure that dominates global institutions. Its DPRK reporting is conducted without on-the-ground access and relies overwhelmingly on defector testimony, secondary NGOs, and media intermediaries. You might as well cite Radio Free Asia.

Treating New York–based NGOs and US-aligned media as inherently objective while dismissing DPRK state data out of hand is typical western chauvinism.

If you are going to critique a sanctioned state, at least interrogate the provenance and incentives of the institutions shaping your evidence.

"Regime" who does not creat better conditions for its people

Material conditions in the DPRK were manufactured by imperialism.

During the Korean War, Amerikkka and it’s dogs dropped over 600,000 tons of bombs and napalm killing nearly 1 in 5 of the Korean population and deliberately destroying dams, power plants, factories, hospitals, railways everything. Whole cities were erased. Survivors had to literally live in caves. But sure, tell me more about how evil and brainwashed the country is from your insulated bubble.

Then came the 70+ years of sanctions, financial blockades, trade isolation, and permanent military threats. Pure medieval siege warfare. Starve them, isolate them, threaten them nonstop then act shocked when living standards take decades to recover. Pure liberal idiocy.

So yeah when you flatten a country, kill a massive chunk of its people, cut it off from global trade, and force it to pour scarce resources into nuclear deterrence, all while surrounding it with military bases and war games, living standards don’t magically bounce back.

Blaming the Korean people and their leadership is pure western chauvinism.

[+] Harashi@jlai.lu -10 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Ok, first of all : I did not make the claim that everyone outside of Pyongyang is an illiterate farmer, you are transforming what I wrote. I said that it could not be 99,9% but maybe 75%. You are just immediately assuming the worst about my intentions because you disagree with me.

Second : about that method of calculation I checked and was, indeed, wrong. Functionnal litteracy is not calculated that way and this number of 99,9% could be close to real. So for that point : my bad and apologies.

But about the rest, I am not puting the blame on North Korean people by applying western chauvinism, I put the blame on the Kim family and their way to govern. You say we cannot trust HRW, but we cannot trust this UN report made by interrogating hundreds of people who fled NK either ? Are they all liars and agents of disinformation ? There are tons of proofs of the bad treatment of NK population and the only counter-narratives defensors of NK can offer are always produced by NK, which is as biased as if it was a capitalist propaganda. I agree that bombing, sanctions and threats are making everything worse, but it explains and does not excuses. It is not a reason to repaint a country like that as ideal just because of the situation in the west.

[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 week ago

You keep proving you don’t actually understand this subject. You misread, you overstate, you walk it back, and then pivot without addressing the core issue.

We already established you were wrong on literacy. You were comfortable declaring something “impossible” with zero methodological grounding.

Now you want to lean on Human Rights Watch and UN defector reports as if that settles it. HRW again is a privately funded New York NGO with no on-the-ground access in the DPRK. Its reporting relies overwhelmingly on defector testimony filtered through NGOs and institutions embedded in Western policy networks. It’s adversarial-source reporting shaped by a very specific geopolitical environment.

You might as well cite Radio Free Asia. Different logo, same alignment: institutions whose mandate or funding structure is tied to states openly hostile to the DPRK.

As for UN “reports,” most of them rely on the exact same defector pipelines. They are not independent mass surveys conducted inside the country. They are structured interviews with people who have already exited under specific political and economic incentives.

Let’s talk about those incentives.

Defectors to South Korea receive state resettlement packages, financial assistance, housing support, and integration programs. There is a media ecosystem in the South that rewards the most dramatic narratives with book deals, television appearances, NGO careers, and speaking circuits. South Korean intelligence agencies have historically screened and processed defectors. None of this automatically means “everyone is lying.” It does mean there are material incentives, institutional filters, and political framing at work.

When testimony is gathered outside the country, from a self-selecting group, processed through security services, NGOs, and Western institutions, and then presented as comprehensive evidence about 25 million people, that is not clean data. It is structurally biased evidence.

Meanwhile, anything produced inside the DPRK is dismissed out of hand as propaganda. So Western-aligned sources are presumed credible, socialist-state sources are presumed fraudulent. That asymmetry is doing all the heavy lifting in your argument.

“Hate the government, not the people” also sounds tidy until you realize the state in question survived total war, the destruction of nearly every major city, the killing of roughly 20% of its population, and decades of sanctions without collapsing internally. People lived in caves after U.S. bombing campaigns flattened urban infrastructure and flooded farmland by targeting dams.

Then came seventy years of sanctions, trade embargoes, financial isolation, technology bans, fuel restrictions, and constant military encirclement. This is long-term siege warfare in modern form.

You don’t get to wave that away as background context and then reduce everything to “the Kim family.”

If you strip out war, annihilation-level destruction, sanctions, isolation, and security compulsion and still insist governance style is the primary explanatory variable the only possible explanation is that you are supremely idiotic or are pushing western narratives on purpose.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The problem with reporting on the DPRK is that information is extremely limited on what is actually going on there, at least in the English language (much can be read in Korean, Mandarin, Russian, and even Spanish). Most reports come from defectors, and said defectors are notoriously dubious in their accounts, something the WikiPedia page on Media Coverage of North Korea spells out quite clearly. These defectors are also held in confined cells for around 6 months before being released to the public in the ROK, in... unkind conditions, and pressured into divulging information. Additionally, defectors are paid for giving testemonials, and these testimonials are paid more the more severe they are. From the Wiki page:

Felix Abt, a Swiss businessman who lived in the DPRK, argues that defectors are inherently biased. He says that 70 percent of defectors in South Korea are unemployed, and selling sensationalist stories is a way for them to make a living.

Side note: there is a great documentary on the treatment of DPRK defectors titled Loyal Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul, which interviews DPRK defectors and laywers legally defending them, if you're curious. I also recommend My Brothers and Sisters in the North, a documentary made by a journalist from the Republic of Korea that was stripped of her citizenship for making this documentary humanizing the people in the DPRK.

Because of these issues, there is a long history of what we consider legitimate news sources of reporting and then walking back stories. Even the famous "120 dogs" execution ended up to have been a fabrication originating in a Chinese satirical column, reported entirely seriously and later walked back by some news outlets. The famous "unicorn lair" story ended up being a misunderstanding:

In fact, the report is a propaganda piece likely geared at shoring up the rule of Kim Jong Eun, North Korea's young and relatively new leader, said Sung-Yoon Lee, a professor of Korean studies at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University. Most likely, North Koreans don't take the report literally, Lee told LiveScience.

"It's more symbolic," Lee said, adding, "My take is North Koreans don't believe all of that, but they bring certain symbolic value to celebrating your own identify, maybe even notions of cultural exceptionalism and superiority. It boosts morale."

These aren't tabloids, these are mainstream news sources. NBC News reported the 120 dogs story. Same with USA Today. The frequently reported concept of "state-mandated haircut styles", as an example, also ended up being bogus sensationalism. People have made entire videos going over this long-running sensationalist misinformation, why it exists, and debunking some of the more absurd articles. As for Radio Free Asia, it is US-government founded and funded. There is good reason to be skeptical of reports sourced entirely from RFA about geopolitical enemies of the US Empire.

Sadly, some people end up using outlandish media stories as an "acceptable outlet" for racism. By accepting uncritically narratives about "barbaric Koreans" pushing trains, eating rats, etc, it serves as a "get out of jail free" card for racists to freely agree with narratives devoid of real evidence.

It's important to recognize that a large part of why the DPRK appears to be insular is because of UN-imposed sanctions, helmed by the US Empire. It is difficult to get accurate information on the DPRK, but not impossible; Russia, China, and Cuba all have frequent interactions and student exchanges, trade such as in the Rason special economic zone, etc, and there are videos released onto the broader internet from this.

In fact, many citizens who flee the DPRK actually seek to return, and are denied by the ROK. Even BBC is reporting on a high-profile case where a 95 year old veteran wishes to be buried in his homeland, sparking protests by pro-reunification activists in the ROK to help him go home in his final years.

Finally, it's more unlikely than ever that the DPRK will collapse. The economy was estimated by the Bank of Korea (an ROK bank) to have grown by 3.7% in 2024, thanks to increased trade with Russia. The harshest period for the DPRK, the Arduous March, was in the 90s, and the government did not collapse then. That was the era of mass statvation thanks to the dissolution of the USSR and horrible weather disaster that made the already difficult agricultural climate of northern Korea even worse. Nowadays food is far more stable and the economy is growing, collapse is highly unlikely.

What I think is more likely is that these trends will continue. As the US Empire's influence wanes, the DPRK will increase trade and interaction with the world, increasing accurate information and helping grow their economy, perhaps even enabling some form of reunification with the ROK. The US Empire leaving the peninsula is the number 1 most important task for reunification, so this is increasingly likely as the US Empire becomes untenable.

Nodutdol, an anti-imperialist group of Korean expats, released a toolkit on better understanding the situation in Korea. This is more like homework, though. I also recommend Roland Boer's Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance for learning about the DPRK's democratic structure.

[–] Harashi@jlai.lu -5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Ok, so western press exagerates or tell straight up lies on details and defectors could not be trusted everytime, but they tell coherent stories. Besides, there is a difference between wanting to be buried in your homeland and wanting to return live there. The situation might be not as bleak as commonly told in the West and I will check some of the links you provided when I'll have time, but I still think we have enough proofs to see that NK is not a great country to live and that its government is at fault. I am not an expert on this, but I have a simple question. You wrote :

As the US Empire’s influence wanes, the DPRK will increase trade and interaction with the world, increasing accurate information

So why is it so difficult for foreign journalists to comme to NK ? If NK's situation is as good as you suggest, why not showing it ? Just for the sake of shuting the mouth of western criticism ? Why the few ones who could go there are restricted to Pyongyang ? What could possibly justify to hide the truth about the country if this truth is actually good, or even not as bad as told ? You say foreign exchanges are possibles with Russia, China or Cuba, three country that share views, to put it like that, with NK about the handling of press and information. I do not think this is reliable. In absence of more trustworthy sources, I consider that the coherent reports told by people who actually went there and were of different horizons (defectors, some journalists of different countries) could be at least partially trusted. It would be extremly unlikely that NK turns out to be a socialist paradise that was hidden from us. I do not know if you consider Reporters Without Borders as another capitalist spawn because it has its headquarters in a western country (France), but its survey of press freedom in NK is explicit. So again, why not showing to us westerners how much we are wrong ?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago

Ok, so western press exagerates or tell straight up lies on details and defectors could not be trusted everytime, but they tell coherent stories

They don't actually tell coherent stories. Just check Yeonmi Park, whose absurd claims are eadily debunked. My point is that defectors are paid to tell outlandish stories.

but I still think we have enough proofs to see that NK is not a great country to live and that its government is at fault.

This is absurd. The DPRK had 80% of its buildings destroyed in the Korean War, along with 20% of their population. In the 90s, their biggest trading partner was dissolved. Throughout all of this, extremely brutal sanctions have been placed on then. Like Cuba, their shortcomings are overwhelmingly due to the harsh embargoes.

So why is it so difficult for foreign journalists to comme to NK ?

It isn't, really, just western journalists. Part of this is due to the DPRK being rightfully suspicious of western sabateurs, and part of this is due to western countries restricting their own travel there.

If NK’s situation is as good as you suggest, why not showing it ?

They do, though the west usually claims everyone is "acting" or other such nonsense.

In absence of more trustworthy sources

Why is publicly owned news media unreliable? This inherent distrust of public media over private reeks of chauvanism.

I consider that the coherent reports told by people who actually went there and were of different horizons (defectors, some journalists of different countries) could be at least partially trusted.

Then watch My Brothers and Sisters in the North, from a journalist that had to give up her ROK citizenship. Won awards in Germany. Also, check Sally Yin's twitter posts, showing daily life in various cities in the DPRK.

It would be extremly unlikely that NK turns out to be a socialist paradise that was hidden from us.

It isn't a paradise. Embargoes and sanctions have dramatically stunted development. It is, however, extremely resiliant and regularly improving.

I do not know if you consider Reporters Without Borders as another capitalist spawn because it has its headquarters in a western country (France), but its survey of press freedom in NK is explicit. So again, why not showing to us westerners how much we are wrong ?

Reporters Without Borders is western biased, and the fact that private, capitalist press is restricted in a socialist country isn't anything new. The fact is, you don't trust anything reported by the DPRK itself, such as KCNA, nor even outlets like South China Morning Post, which ran a report on Pyongyang's expansion.