this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2025
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[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

What is the decision framework they used that led to them approving inducing 3hr heart attacks in beagle puppies before killing them?

People here seem happy to have blind faith in the system when it produced results that are objectively horrific. I would genuinely like to understand what the cost/benefit analysis was, what alternatives methods of research were considered, and why they weren't viable.

[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Animals can only be used in research when there is convincing scientific justification, when expected benefits outweigh potential risks, and when scientific objectives cannot be achieved using non-animal methods. In Canada, there is federal and provincial legislation overseeing the humane treatment of animals.

This type of intervention makes scientific evidence appear secondary to partisan political opinion, weakening the integrity of the research enterprise. Moreover, such actions embolden activist campaigns that often misrepresent the reality of modern animal research and are usually counterproductive. These campaigns frequently ignore or sidestep the strict welfare standards and regulatory requirements that govern research facilities, as well as the medical breakthroughs that benefit both human and animal health. 

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Blah blah blah.

Again, tell me the specific justification in this case, given what they were doing to beagle puppies.

I'm not interested in just hand waving it away and saying "trust the system". If the system produces horrific results, the system should be able to openly justify why they were necessary.

[–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The WHOLE POINT is that it was NOT justified in this or any case! Someone broke the law AND all strictly developed regulatory practices! You should be focusing on the individual who committed the offense and tortured animals, not attacking science in Canada, and I'd argue you don't even care about research at all and are just reacting to an emotional headline for clout.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Get off the internet. The paranoia and brain rot is showing.

[–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

How about no, and also stuff your holes up to the elbow, turdheap.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Oh my god, someone disagreed with you, they must be arguing in bad faith!!!! Run back to your curated filter bubble, don't let a real conversation spoil your brain rot.

[–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'm not going to continue to feed your fatherless attention seeking behaviour you pathetic whelp, there is no good faith in your molecules, so don't presume to lecture me FROM the internet about getting off it.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca -1 points 6 months ago

Get off the internet and have a real conversation with a real person.

Try not to be triggered by that suggestion.

[–] Slowy@lemmy.world -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Dogs are a particularly useful model for heart problems in humans because they naturally get several of the same conditions and diseases humans do. You can try to create genetic variants of mice to have these conditions but it’s not nearly as good as a species that naturally experiences the condition. You may waste hundreds of mouse lives for poor quality research that way.

All studies involving animals require ethical approval involving a detailed assessment of the protocol by a committee that must include veterinarians, managers of the facility (not the lab members but outside of the research team), technicians who work directly with the animals, other researchers doing unrelated work, and a community member otherwise uninvolved in research at all. This is just for the ethical approval, they will also have to go through scientific merit evaluation by a different committee before this step. They must lay out exactly what they are doing and why it is necessary and how they are mitigating pain and distress. They may be under anesthesia for the entire heart attack, and then euthanized without waking up, or receive painkillers and be monitored constantly by a veterinarian. If they don’t do this, the work wont happen, and results wont be publishable either. Without being at that meeting we can’t know the exact technical justification, but there is a very strict process to follow and often everyone has more feelings about it when they are companion animals and they receive a lot of scrutiny.

I’m not all for animal research, some of it is poorly done and wasteful and doesn’t have any practical use. Or the data suffers from human incompetence. But a lot of it does help humans and animals. And there is a lot more tendency to intervene on pain and distress than you’d think - a distressed animal with no pain mitigation is not a good representation for your average human receiving treatment for something at a hospital. Your average local veterinary clinic almost certainly sees far worse cases of neglect and festering horrifying injuries and disease at the hands of incompetent dog owners than a study like this would ever produce.