this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2026
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[–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 36 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The new testament was written like a hundred years after Jesus died. Its entirely bullshit.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago (4 children)

It's an oral history whose earliest written accounts are dates between 60-150 years after the events in questions.

No more "bullshit" than any number of other 2000 year old transcribed histories.

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 hours ago

It's as bullshit as all the other oral histories that claim magic things

[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yes the other stories are also 100% bullshit

No shortage of contemporary accounts.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Contemporary Roman records are less bullshit than Jesus walking on water in the New Testament because the writer cared whether or not it was true.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Contemporary Roman records are less bullshit

Didn't Pliny the Elder include the Basilisk, the Manticore, and the Phoenix in his Natural History?

Meanwhile, Seneca described the feats of Hercules, the sorcery of Medea, and the plung into the underworld by Oedipus.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

How often people do get plunged into the underworld out there? That's Hercules, Oedipus, Heracles (Hercules's nonunion Roman equivalent), persephone (rhymes with shone), Orpheus, who else? That's like all the ancient geeks I know

[–] Ironrod@sh.itjust.works 2 points 17 hours ago

*ancient nerds

Ah OK I misunderstood and thought you meant anything written down at that time.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There was no such thing as academic tenure in those times and every historian depended on having a patron, usually a wealthy Senator. They probably cared more about keeping their patron happy than whether what they wrote was true or not.

I mean were you there? How do you know the intentions of the people writing things down back then?

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Less bullshit, not perfectly credible. Records on taxes and grain production are much more plausible than magic powers.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

LOL. Yeah the Romans were known for never being corrupt and they would never ever be skimming some tax revenue! Therefore those tax numbers were 100% accurate all of the time.

And Julius Caesar defeated one zillion Gauls at the Battle of Alesia. He would never exaggerate, because people cared a lot about whether the things they were writing were true.

I think I'll go on thinking that primary sources are all inherently flawed. The Viking sagas talk about their colony in Vinland along with fighting sea serpents. They're mostly bullshit, but it's the only written record of Vinland which is supported by archaeological evidence. Do you discard everything in the sagas because there's some mythological stuff in them? Do you inherently trust Roman records about taxes because they they're dry and boring?

Or maybe historians are correct to consider the context of any work written (and that includes religious texts) alongside archaeological evidence? Also consider that for most of history most people couldn't read or write. There's always oral history that's written down centuries later. Many things were never written down, and many things that were written down were destroyed. We have a limited amount of information from historical texts and given how uncommon literacy was in past, it's usually written by either a wealthy person, someone employed by a wealthy person, or a priest. It's always going to be an incomplete picture, and it all has a lot of bullshit in it.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 3 points 12 hours ago

Less bullshit, not perfectly credible

Therefore those tax numbers were 100% accurate all of the time.

I'm not sure we're on the same page here

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

But it was collected and disseminated by a bunch of dudes in the 300s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Nicae canonized the subset of Gospels they considered legitimate and excised the Gospels they considered heretical.

But the earliest surviving written gospel is dated to AD 125, with speculation (based on adjacent writings) dating new testament documents back to AD 60.

[–] mobyduck648@lemmy.world 3 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

I thought the Council of Nicaea was about addressing Arianism rather than settling the New Testament canon?

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 points 9 hours ago

Ah, you're right. I had to confused with the 382 Synod of Rome.

[–] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world 4 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

The Council of Nicaea addressed many things, including Christians making themselves eunuchs (as Jesus said to), which was very popular at the time.

https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum01.htm

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I appreciate that link. I also like and recognize that you accept that "early Christians" is a misnomer and they were actually a sect of Judaism. They called themselves Jews as well.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

you accept that β€œearly Christians” is a misnomer and they were actually a sect of Judaism

I don't think this internally contradictory. No more than asserting that "early Mormons" were a sect of Christianity, and therefore not real Mormons somehow.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 1 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

They were Jewish until they called themselves something different. We know they called themselves Jews until at least the trashing of the temple, so around 70 ad or so. After that, I think the historians say they start to change their names. Not sure if it was always Christians as the name they chose. It's interesting, I'll start looking it up.

Edit: This wikipedia page and its sources have some interesting tidbits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Christianity

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 1 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

No, they're not real mormons now because they're dead. It's been like 200 years