this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2025
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No, we can't, because that's an absurd premise.
Socialism is a mode of production. It isn't when you import more than you export, or vice-versa. In the PRC, the large firms and key industries are publicly owned, while medium and small firms have diverse forms of ownership like private, cooperative, and joint-stock. It's in the primary stage of socialism.
The idea that the PRC isn't socialist is a "left" wing fallacy among Statesians. In the PRC, socialist countries like Cuba and Vietnam, and among major communist orgs, the PRC's status as a developing socialist country is not in question.
You haven't made any arguments as to why China is capitalist, just that it exports, but in reality it is import driven economies that are the most capitalist, and that isn't even a rule, just a generalization.
https://www.ie.edu/insights/articles/is-china-a-communist-country/
Though you'll probably deny this article as valid because it harms your perception of China being a Communist state, and usually people do not like they're conspiracy theories to be challenged by actual fact.
Additionally, besides the argument of whether it's communist or not, it is not a good country and if that's what communism looks like, then I actually want no part in communism. They have no ability for free speech or even protests. Say what you want about it's economics, but that is not how humans should be forced to live.
Dawg what.
Literally the reason the government ended the covid lockdowns, despite that being the correct course of action that saved shitloads of lives, is because people got tired of it and protested, and the government listened.
Meanwhile here in the states, every protest I've ever been part of has been stomped down by riot cops and had it's demands ignored.
I'm sure they're all crying and cursing their doubled lifespans
Please Xi, my people yearn to be forced to live like that
That's an opinion piece by a non-Marxist that makes the incredibly basic error of confusing the developing stage of socialism with the characteristics of the advanced stage of communism. You're incredibly arrogant for someone who clearly has done very little reading of Marx.
I've written frequently on the PRC's model of socialism, such as this summary from a few days ago, including resources for further reading. You can even shortcut to my Read Theory, Darn it! introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, though it's getting some revisions.
The people of China have freedom of speech, capitalists and businesses do not. The people of China do not protest often, because the system works:
It's time for you to turn off Fox News.
"Theory is a leftist conspiracy!" - @basiclemmon98@lemmy.dbzer0.com probably
Those damn commies and all the books we read, lol
Sorry to challenge your little conspiracy theory based on 200 years of theory and praxis. My sources:
Yep pretty much lol
You should send those books to china and see if they'll read them.
I support that.
They do, Marxism is a subject you can major in in college.
Further, it is absolutely not my place as a statesian communist to tell China how to educate on Marxism. If anything, I try to learn from them and how they teach Marxism so I can more effectively study and help others with theory.
Edit: and you admit you, yourself haven't read them!!!! Pure Western "leftist" clown shit
You say that as if the white american leftists do not pride themselves on having read all of the theory, yet still support our capitalistic system even having read all of the theory
That's why you're here making a fool of yourself, right? Because we all support capitalism and you're a communist?
They're the one true leftist
What are you talking about? How are communists supporting the "capitalistic" system?
The american leftists that continue to allow America to keep being capitalist by not acting and instead just reading the theory without doing much other than feeling better about themselves because they read a book. That is most of the American 'Communists/Leftists' I have interacted with
This is absolutely a problem. Marxist-Leninists call these people "Western Marxists," and have written extensively about it. 2 good sources are Western Marxism Loves Purity and Martyrdom, But Not Real Revolution by Jones Manoel, and Western Marxism: How it was Born, How it Died, and How it can be Reborn by Domenico Losurdo.
There are good orgs doing work in the west. In the US Empire, some good examples are the Party for Socialism and Liberation and Freedom Road Socialist Organization. In my aforementioned Read Theory, Darn it! introductory ML reading list I also stress the importance of getting organized.
I agree with you. But i aslo feel like when people complain about the state of organizing in the US, it doesn't get acknowledged how thouroughly the left in the US was routed. Every org was infiltrated and compromised. Its leaders and members were assassinated and imprisoned. I'm not argueing against organizing of course, and there are good orgs today like the two you mentioned. I just think it should be acknowledged why we're in the state we're in in the US. It's not because people read some books, and then decided to just allow capitalism to continue. An entire generation of socialists were basically eradicated here
Indeed, the history of organizing in the belly of the empire is one where we have been murdered, de-fanged, infiltrated, crushed, absorbed, mis-directed, digested, and more. For statesians, myself included, trying to slay the monster from in the belly is both the most effective and most dangerous position to be in. That's why passivity is so common, simply hoping and praying China will save us all and letting everyone else carry the torch of humanity forward. However, how self-centered can one be? To live idly in the belly of empire, often being bribed by the spoils of imperialism, absolving ourselves of any responsibility? Of any struggle?
It isn't easy, but it isn't impossible either, it's merely difficult. And because it's merely difficult, we are responsible for carrying out our historic duty, for the sake of the international proletariat and an end to the era of imperialism.
This isn't directed at you, by the way, I just used your comment more as a springboard to attack leftist inaction.
This was the kick in the ass i needed to get over my self-doubt and put in my PSL application
Fuck yea! I just started dipping my toes into organizing myself, haha. Needed to get over my social anxiety.
Totally understood, and happy to provide a springboard!
This is an interesting point. I agree that that we in a the US arent off the hook so to speak, and should organize, etc, exactly as you said. But to springboard off you for mement, i think its important for USian leftists to understand that the US is not the main character of the world. I don't think that their will be a revolution in the US that leads the world to communism. I think the rest of the world will be leading us.
That doesn't mean we should be passive, there's still an important role to be played in the US and imperialist West - and as conditions worsen revolutionary potential increases. Its impossible to predict when something will be able to happen here so being organized is important. I just mean that socialism is an international project, and sometimes, particularly the "Western leftists," talk like the West will bring about the "true" socialism and lead the revolution.
I've been thinking about this for a while, but haven't put it in words yet so I hope that makes sense lol. And of course this isn't an arguement for passivity, and I'm not diresring this at you or youre above comment.
You're absolutely correct, and the problem you describe with self-important chauvanistic "leftist" statesians is why the MAGA communist and PatSoc movements exist, ie the ACP. The danger of chauvanism from leftists in the US is ever-present, we will not be leaders, we are to do our duty as revolutionaries in the world's most evil empire by bringing the nightmare to an end. Only then can we begin to be a part of a struggle for building a better world, a struggle already begun by billions of comrades around the world.
The way I see it, the monster has been brought to its knees through heightening of contradictions and protracted struggle against AES. We can either take advantage of the situation, leaping to slit the throat of the monster, and begin cooperative development along internationalist lines, or we can be crushed under its own weight with some small comfort knowing that the rest of the world will move on without us to a better world. In other words, its socialism or barbarism.
🫡
It sounds like you're just justifying not reading theory and projecting onto people that have. I wish the US only continued to exist because the people who've read theory were allowing it to. That would be a really easy fix
I will admit, I have not read the source theory, but I engage often with communists (most of my immidiate sphere are communists) enough to get a lot of it (I am actually an Anarcho-Communist, just to note). But my problem, as always, with a lot of you people who are obsessed with trying to use China as an example of communism, is the fact that theory and practice are two very different things. Very few places if any even follow your own theory from what I have gleaned from other comrades.
It is also really easy to pressure people to give the answers you want to for those kind of questions if you are an authoritarian state. Also from the cyber security sector, most citizens of China desperately try and get their hands on vpns or use tor in order to be able to actually access the external world, which is never a good sign and does not scream "We're free!" to me.
Also fox news is abhorant, as is all American backed official news outlets. I use lemmy, did you really think that I watch state provided news? Or was that an ad hominim because people here dislike Fox specifically?
Marxist-Leninist theory and practice are united in the PRC. As you admit, you have not read much theory, and are commiting the same error as the person you linked: a non-Marxist judging a socialist state in the primary stage by the characteristics applicable to an advanced communist society. I linked you some good starting points so you can correct these misunderstandings, but if you are going to continue to insist on being right about theory you admitted you haven't even read, then there isn't much room for constructive discussion.
As for the dismissal of consistent hard data on the grounds that Chinese citizens are "pressured," this data is from western orgs surveying Chinese citizens, unaffiliated with the CPC. Western orgs have been trying to understand CPC resilliance because they wish to undermine it, and as such have been trying to best understand why the CPC is beloved. Spoiler: it's socialism.
The Fox News bit was a tongue-in-cheek jab referencing the fact that you are repeating right-wing talking points about the PRC near-identical to mainstream media. I apologize for the jab, but I consider it fair after you opened with jabs and condescension yourself.
A bit on the "stages of socialism" I referenced, a table from Cheng Enfu:
I appreciate the apology for the jab and i as well apologize for seeming somewhat resistant and bitter. Most of my problem with china comes from how they handle the digital front and has kind of left a bad taste in my mouth for how they treat their citizens, so it's really hard for me to imagine they're doing socialism correctly. I will probably go and look into the sources you linked.
Apology accepted!
For the PRC, specifically with respect to the "Great Firewall," it's largely a two-fold measure.
It forces internal internet development, rather than relying on the present system flooded by western capital. This forces self-reliance.
The west has huge amounts of money and a near total control on information, and has historically used it in "Radio Free X" news stations to propagandize against and undermine socialism in the real world. It keeps control out of the hands of capitalists in the PRC, which is critical in a country where class struggle is very much alive and constant.
The people use VPNs if they want to, it isn't very strictly enforced against. Ultimately, what's important is that, in the information age, China has sovereignty over its own infrastructure and the working class is in charge. This is directly shown in huge approval rates, and rapid development from democratically decided Five Year Plans. China has taken a scientific approach to production and development, and while they have a long way to go, they've come farther than anyone else in far shorter of an amount of time.
I'm not saying you have to abandon anarcho-communism (though I once was an anarchist myself), I just encourage you to take a sympathetic approach rather than an antagonistic one when trying to understand the system the people of China have fought and died for, and work day in and day out with pride to continue building up.
Trust me, we knew.