Too many people pearl clutching today over worries of retributive violence, as if the fascists aren't already going to be committing that violence on us in the near future regardless. It's not too early to say that this scumbag deserved much worse and I'm glad he got rocked so publicly. Mods I'll understand if you delete this and I'm truly sorry for the trouble if you do, I just need a personal break today from the media cacophony of liberals collectively reconciling with the realization that we live in an abnormally and horrifically violent society.
I feel for all the people who will have to live with the fear and trauma of witnessing this. I’m glad nobody else was hurt. This type of violence is a consequence of our gun-obsessed and highly politically polarized culture, which Kirk had a massive hand in making worse. I hope we can focus on the damage his rhetoric has caused and those who were taken in by him can use this as a learning moment.
I guess it occurs to me that the shooter was lucky to target so accurately.
Emotionally driven rogue shooters often aren’t going to have steady aim. We’ve even seen from many similar incidents, it can happen that multiple unrelated people to the object of their hate can get hurt. It’s often how gang violence spreads - the gangs only care about their opponents, but stray bullets still hit innocent people, dragging the mess forward.
If they’d hit anyone else, which is purely a matter of luck and lack of discovery, not shooting skill, I imagine this wouldn’t be so clear cut an issue. For that reason, I’d rather we not generate imitators, especially not in crowded events like these.
Yeah, what is up with our gun-obsessed culture anyhow? Switzerland for example has about as many guns per person as we do, but they’re not nutso gun worshippers like we are. What gives?
The US has roughly 1.2 guns per person. Switzerland has 0.27. Canada is a better comparison with 0.34. No country in the world is really in the same league as the US. The US is more than double the next country: Yemen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
While other countries do sometimes have a few guns, they all have much stronger gun laws. In Switzerland a gun is never something you can use for self-defence or home defence. It has to be safely stored at all times except when you're going out hunting or going to a shooting range. If your weapon is lost or stolen you have to report it to the police immediately. If you are going hunting or going to a shooting range, your gun has to be unloaded.
In Canada it's relatively easy to get a hunting rifle, but pistols are more or less illegal. If you're a sport shooter you can get one, but if you're driving to go shooting it has to be locked in a box in the trunk of your car.
The US one of the only countries where it's acceptable to use a gun for self-defence. It's one of the only countries where people think they have a right to guns. Almost every other country considers it a privilege that can be taken away if someone doesn't actively demonstrate that they're handling these dangerous things safely. In almost every other country it's illegal to have a loaded gun on you when you're not at a gun range, with a few exceptions made for police, bodyguards, etc.
The US also has extremely violent media compared to the rest of the world. In the US there are ratings to try to protect kids from seeing sexual content, but violence is mostly OK. In most of the rest of the world it's violence that's not OK but sex is no big deal.
Swiss only have guns because it is the gun from their military training, which currently is mandatory.
They may have guns, but they do not have ammo.
I've always said America doesn't have a gun problem. We have a culture problem. I could go on and on, but as a gun owner concerned with the law, you can't believe the stupid shit I've seen posted online.
It has both. Canada also has firearms and it's not nearly as batshit
Switzerland requires training courses and other regulations we don't have have afaik, though not an expert, which likely helps a lot.
America as a non homogenous society, and always has been rife with divisions as well. These divisions easily, even subconsciously stoke fear into people, prompting a bigger draw towards self defense.
Early pioneer spirit also drilled it into the American consciousness. Needed a gun to defend your farm/animals from predators or other people when law enforcement didn't exist or was hours away back in the day. Also leads to guns being in the family, needing back ups, a gun for every able bodied person etc ...
So a big culture of self defense being the only viable defense for much of American history, consistent concerns about the "others" (for a large chunk of time also includes slave revolts), and relatively lax requirements (stemming from the other reasons mentioned) and boom. Crazy gun obsessed culture.
Self defense often means a gun for me. I live on the edge of town, not sure how fast cops could get here. I'm in the woods and on the waters all the time, sometimes almost everyday. These aren't nature parks. The places I go are wild.
If I get out south of my camp in the swamp, there are zero humans our there with no way for them to get in. I'm pretty determined but much if it is impassable even for me. Animals don't have the same problems. Last trip I stumbled on water moccasins on three occasions. Not gonna shot one, but if I fuck up and get to close to get away, shotgun it is.
Went down a creek one time and when I returned the next day a teen girl came running up, almost crying, "We saw you leave and you never came back and we were just talking about who to call!" Because no one, ever, goes on that water. Saw a hulking male mountain lion though!
I feel for you living in a uncivilized country where you need a weapon in order to feel safe.
I strongly worry about the short term for everyone. Listening to the fear and anger of both the people around me in rage and the people celebrating violence online, this feels like the first domino falling. Tensions will be high for awhile. Please learn to love your neighbors no matter how ignorant or disgusting their beliefs and convictions may be.
What about when their beliefs are "people you care about should die?"
It's a reciprocal relationship. I can tolerate them if they can tolerate me. If they base their beliefs on failing to tolerate me.... I won't extend the courtesy either.
Loving people like this doesn't make them question themselves - it makes them think their abhorrent views aren't so bad or that your convictions aren't really that strong.
And doing so does not stop the violence - there are already people dying in prison camps and being arrested and beaten for protests. The violence is already happening and keeping silent about it is just pretending it isn't and trying to keep it isolated to a group of sacrificial others rather than seeing it effect everyone.
Is the situation lamentable? Yes. But this escalation didn't happen in a vacuum.
Idk. Lot of people hoped Luigi would spark a trend and that never materialized. Don't fret too much
That was less than a year ago. In terms of history and revolutions, that's not a long time.
It's easy to read history and think everything happened seemlessly - events clearly triggered subsequent events, in an easy-to-follow pattern on a timeline. In reality, months on a timeline actually take months to happen. We are living in days that will be written in history books someday. The people who read about this time will have a hindsight into our era that we can't possibly possess.
Which is why I don't understand how we can be in the comment thread of a high-profile, wealthy conservative being shot, and there are still people saying that Luigi (or whoever shot that CEO) didn't "spark a trend." Just because we're too close to see it doesn't mean a trend isn't actively emerging right now.
Fair enough. I think lots of people talk about it like they were expecting that it's suddenly open season on em all, but yeah true. This could be a trend. Well have to see.
I mean, there was the blackrock ceo too.
I ain't gonna love bigots
Horrible Trauma is one of the few things that changes people's minds. It's generally in-group pressure, and trauma. Maybe some charlie supporter saw him get a well deserved death will have nightmares for a while, and then stop supporting horrible causes.
Nah, tried that. It Doesn't Fucking Work.
The only thing I'm afraid of is the reprisal that Trump will extract from us.
Whatever he does in vengeance he was going to do anyway.