this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2025
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If you think the rights of people can be won without violence, you have not paid attention to history. This was never going to end peacefully.
Evergreen tweet
For those that don’t want to give X the traffic
There's a Wikipedia page on nonviolent revolutions, so is violence itself necessary or is the threat of violence sufficient? History may not actually be in complete agreement in favor of violent resistance.
"Nonviolent campaigns have a 53% success rate and only about a 20% rate of complete failure. Things are reversed for violent campaigns, which were only successful 23% of the time, and complete failures about 60% of the time. Violent campaigns succeeded partially in about 10% of cases, again comparing unfavorably to nonviolent campaigns, which resulted in partial successes over 20% of the time."
https://www.ericachenoweth.com/research/wcrw
Those campaigns were surrounded with violence. That is why they worked. Riots, killings, people getting beat up, people fighting police. the police committing acts of violence, etc., not having concerted, armed, resistance, does not mean non-violent. Like you say the threat of the violence they could see, getting bigger, is the reason to reach out to the non-violent party for diplomacy. But the threat has to be real.
Something tells me you don't actually understand the difference between a violent campaign and a nonviolent campaign.
Yes, the goals cannot be violent. That doesn't mean violence cannot be extremely useful when applied tactfully.
Nonviolent resistance movements are more likely to facilitate transitions from autocracy to democracy, improve democratic qualities like civil liberties, transform security forces and judicial systems in rights-respecting directions, and enhance well-being measures such as life expectancy.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2452292924000365
The commonly held belief that most revolutions that have happened in dictatorial regimes were bloody or violent uprisings is not borne out by historical analysis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_revolution
Empirical evidence strongly favors strategic, organized nonviolent resistance as the most effective path to sustainable political change.
Political assassinations are a tool of desperation. They're effective at creating instability and further violence; counterproductive for achieving lasting political goals. They fail to eliminate the ideas, movements, and structures that person represented.
Those nonviolent movements didn't exist in a vaccuum, and dismissing the violence that WAS present as wholly separate and due no credit is IGNORING HISTORY.
Well go be violent then. Fuck it up for those of us that don’t want any part in your bullshit.
I’m out. I’m done. I’m tired of reading shit from you cowards who do nothing day in and day out but inspire crazy people.
You’re animals. You’re no better than goddamn wild animals…except you call other people to violence and do nothing. That’s all that is left of your humanity. You’re like Hitler. You dream of gassing your enemies but you’re too cowardly to run the camps yourselves.
Comment back when you’ve killed someone you coward. Go on. Get out there. What’s stopping you?
Let me guess, you’re too comfortable. Your life is ok. Day in and day out with your little dopamine hits. Dreaming and doing nothing.
Go on, coward. Kill someone. Or are you somehow above it? Is that why I’m reading about people other than you in the news every day?
Shut your goddamn mouth until you’ve fired a shot. When you do, I hope you’re crucified in the streets.
I’m so done. I really am.
Ah, you're one of the rational ones, i see
You want violence? I’m just hoping it comes to those of you who do.
I do not WANT violence, no. And yet, here we are.
I grew up needing to be ready to kill, and have almost been killed myself, by an abusive father.
You know what finally got him to chill? My mom fighting back with a clothing iron. Me grappling him to show I could fuck him up now if I wanted to, but chose not to.
You would have a point, if the current government wasn't ALREADY doing mass violence. What the fuck do you think ICE is doing? Where's your outrage there, angry dumbass?
The fact you say someone wishing to give the oppressors a small taste, a warning they fucking actually understand and listen to, is being Hitler-like, and don't call the people literally running camps now that, shows what you really think.
That's why I left the country and moved elsewhere. Because I knew that if I stayed there, I'd eventually be on the news for something like this, because I have a way lower tolerance for fascism due to having grown up with a literal boot on my face sometimes, as a kid.
And because I knew cowards like you are still way too numerous, too afraid to actually stand up for what's right, terrified so much they can't even let people celebrate when the world was made just a tiny bit better by the elimination of someone terrible bringing terrible things into existence.
Those of us who want people like Kirk dead don't want it for the sake of violence, we want it so the future can be a better place for all. Unlike Kirk and his ilk that want violence so that only the ones they choose can have it all. If you can't tell that difference, it says way more about your ideals than you may realize.
You don’t know me. I’m covered from head to toe with scars from growing up in a world much like the one you grew up in. Hospital trip after hospital trip, police officers taking Polaroids, swearing that my brother and I were wrestling and a mirror fell on me, or my hand got broke because I crashed an atv. I was locked in a room and starved to the point that I was stunted, the only male in my family who isn’t over 6ft tall. I sat in a courtroom after the cotton swab that was shoved in my ass didn’t provide the evidence needed to put a motherfucker in jail.
Somehow, I just don’t have a taste for violence.
I’m not sad that Charlie Kirk died. I’m sad that someone killed another human being in front of the world and I’m terrified of what comes next. I’m terrified that he’ll be a martyr and inspire more people than he ever could have inspired living his life to its natural conclusion. I have no doubt that some of that inspiration will be violent retaliation.
Just like when the moron shot at Trump and missed. You can go back to the comment I made that day. It went something like, “Well, they made him a goddamn hero and the election is over now.”
I think we could have prevented the rise of Donald Trump. I think people like Kirk and Shapiro could be made irrelevant. I believe we can do that with our goddamn brains and we don’t have to be apes to get what we want.
Just because you're not a fighter doesn't mean you're right.
Did your dad stop because you didn't fight back?
I'm sorry, but you sound more like my older brother than anything. Guess which one of us didn't get beat as a teen at some point?
A bully doesn't stop just because you're peaceful. A psychopath doesn't go easier on people because there's less resistance. Even you tried violence - you think incarceration isn't a form of violence? If you say no, you'd be saying when you got locked up in a room, that was a peaceful action then. But we both know that's not the case, is it? Even you tried putting the fucker in a jail - just not with your own violence but with the backing of the state.
Trump nearly getting shot didn't win him the election. Running Kamala as his opponent did, and I had told my family as much back then (this is assuming there were no electoral shenanigans).
And whether Charlie Kirk lived or died, there already has been violence against others. That's what ICE is. That's what the gay voice actor for King of the Hill getting killed was. That's what Kyle Rittenhouse did.
The government is run by people like your dad. Was your dad someone who would change if nothing was done against him? What if now, you made it so he could avoid legal consequences too? What if he knew the police, the courts, etc would never touch him?
That's what you're dealing with.
I don't blame you for being a coward, and thinking being peaceful will maybe make things better. Not everyone has that fire in them. My brother didn't, and my mother didn't for the longest time either. Some people do, some don't. That's not your fault. You don't have to support those willing to fight back.
But you sure as hell don't get to say it's wrong for them to do so either. They fight so people like you, hopefully, one day, don't go through the shit you did. They kill if they have to because there's no alternative left. Had they done so much, much sooner, things wouldn't have been as bad as they are. But the bullies have convinced the majority that docility will make things better - because having no opposition is what they want.
I have killed someone in my life. I am not telling anyone to kill anyone either. I am pointing out the pure fact that we have never resolved the progress of human right without violence, and you are naive to think we could do it this time. If you don't want to kill people, I understand, it sucks, I know. However, thinking we can move forward without having violence is wrong, it has been happening for a while. The right has been routinely committing acts of terror for years now. They pulled the peace option off the table a long time ago.
We’re just doomed to do this over and over again, aren’t we?
Just an endless cycle of brutality.
As though one day we’ll have just enough bloodshed to have everything we ever wanted?
Get off my nuts with that shit.
Just like every other time it’s happened, some naive kids will go out and die for all the morons who should be old enough to know better.
Oh well, I guess.
Ok then, tell me, when in a position where the forces that dictate government/law have come to a fundamental, ideological, irreconcilable, impasse, and your life is at stake, what do you do? What do you do when the political momentum is quickly moving into a position where you will die from it, and every check, and balance, has just been ignored? Please tell me your plan.
rofl what an actual loser you are. Way to completely and utterly fail to understand the paradox of tolerance.
I bet you don't even understand the principles of self defense... Fucking pathetic. Leave if a Nazi being killed upsets you so much. I promise Lemmy will not pamper your dumb ass.
Go fight, pussy. I look forward to reading about you in the news.
ahaha good job proving what a fucking nitwit you are...
Honestly solid argument, even though you will likely be disliked. Sorry this is all stressing you out so much.
It just seems to me that we’re doomed as a species to continuously roll backwards into monstrosity and suffering. We’re animals. We really are.
Even the people who want a better and more just world think that it needs to be covered in flames first to get there.
It’s all some big game and the only people who keep losing are the regular people who just want to eat and not go to bed hungry.
When some big war comes, it will be fought by children again while all the so called thinkers on all sides dream of rebuilding in the aftermath, only to end up right back in the same mess all over again.
That’s why I’m so angry. Even the people who study history seem to miss everything between the lines.
Someone will take Charlie Kirk’s place. They always do. The next person will rally people to retaliate and be more extreme on his rhetoric.
When the next big war comes, we need to just take all of the people who advocated for it and throw them into a field and let them have it out. That isn’t ever how it goes though.
Thank you.