this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2025

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455

Capitalism made your iphone (lemmy.ml)

submitted 1 week ago by cm0002@lemmy.world to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world

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[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago (3 children)

What the capitalists did was pay all the workers right after they did the work, even though the phones wouldn’t actually be sold for some time after that. Capitalists bring capital. Money. It takes money to get things started.

I completely agree that the rewards are all disproportionate. The people who put up the capital shouldn’t get all the rewards. But it’s just dumb to claim that they play no role at all. If that’s true, walk out of your house and make a phone you designed yourself out of sticks you find on the ground.

[+] doomcanoe@piefed.social 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (48 children)

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[–] Holytimes@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago (3 children)

You can't get the same product tho. And it's not the only thing.

The actual man power is only a fraction of what went into it.

Connections, property, minerals, education and many many other aspects went into it.

To design it with out capital you would need to find people who with out capital educated themselves

With out capital find individuals who have the minerals and resources

Lastly you need a way to connect all these people after you have found them

None of this requires actual money to do in theory, but now you need to find a way to justify to these people to provide their fancy rocks and knowledge into a project that doesn't actually benefit them unless a pre existing system that relied on capital existed to push development to the current state.

The fundamental flaw that gets over looked is different economic systems push towards different advancements in technology.

So to argue that a different system would be better suited is just a fallacy. You don't get capitalist products and goods in a communist system.

A system that optimizes for the worker would produce goods and services that improve the workers existence for example.

You might get some over lap but the implementation would also be so wildly different. Hell for example in a theoretical non corrupt communist system LLMs and AI systems would be lauded as amazing by everyone.

They are the ideal improvement of a system that shares resources to stream line and reduce the burden and quality of life of the working class. Since everyone would equally benifit from them and it would drive the hobbies artist out of a job but instead freeing them to make more personal art instead of art for the community.

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[–] kurwa@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Where did that capital come from?

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[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago (5 children)

It only "takes money to get things started" because our economy is organized that way.

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[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Capitalist funded the creation of the iPhone and withdrawal rent on their funding.

There are many ways to fund the process.

Capitalists like capitalism because they get to extract more than they funded with no upper bound.

They leech off of the value of the workers who created the product because they think funding the arrangment entitles them to infinite returns on their investment.

It's rent seeking with more steps and no overhead. There is zero upkeep because the input is the output, capital.

If capital was additive then adding twice as much capital would result in twice as much output and that is clearly not the case.

It's a valve and it is like a damn operator taking credit for the river.

[–] Garbagio@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Its just such a stupid argument on its face. We wouldn't argue that tribalism gave us agriculture, or that somehow feudalism is good because of windmills. As a society we have ideas, we direct resources to those ideas, and then we reap the benefits of those ideas. Capitalism is simply a more effective driver of resources than the systems before. But mathematically driven aristocracy is still aristocracy.

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Capitalism is destroying the Earth... and causing climate change at an unprecedented pace. Its all in what you view as valuable. If you dont value a habitable planet, sure capitalism is an effective system at exploiting workers for a few people's benefit.

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[–] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

I love when these assholes try to convince you that the capitalists created the company and therefore deserve all the capital.

Like, ok, give all your money to your parents and grandparents.

[–] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

Always fun to see a nuanced Marxist concept escape lemmy.ml and be argued against by people who have zero idea what they’re talking about.

[+] j4k3@piefed.world 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

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[–] flandish@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago (11 children)

creation of a surplus of devices, through exploitation, for the purposes of profit is capitalism.

just buying stuff is just markets. barters and lemonade stands are not capitalist.

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[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 16 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Purchase of the device is Capitalism, because your money IS your vote, and YOU are the Capital of Capitalism!

Capitalism describes the division of labour and profits, not the purchasing of goods. YOU are not theCapital in capitalism unless you are working for the profits of the owner. The root word of Capitalism is Caput, meaning head or cattle. Capitalism's root definition is basically the ownership of cattle or chattel.

In a planned economy, there are beepers and payphones. No one builds the most expensive commercial endeavor in all of human history – advanced silicon fab nodes

According to? The Soviets made it to space before we did, and China currently fabricates the vast majority of that technology. Technology isn't native to any economic structure.

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[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Absolutely nothing requires the only two options to be capitalisim and planned economy. Market socialism is a thing.

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[–] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why would anyone build beepers if there are no mobile phones? That's an entire wireless infrastructure that doesn't need to be created or maintained. Beepers were the impetus for early wireless repeaters and signal towers. Phones created the data and load bearing standards but the hardware was built for the devices before phones.

In a planned economy the onus is on the person to be where they need to make or receive a call. Like the 70s and rotary phones. "Plan your day around what the day has planned for you" is what one of the most annoying teachers I've ever had said and it's the perfect model for blaming the individual for problems outside their control. And that's why central planners will use it to deflect from criticism.

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[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I always blame Edward Bernays for a lot of things we have today.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Because he was responsible for taking his uncle’s insights and weaponizing them for profit and power?

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