I will save you some confusion by summarizing the argument. The author shows that you can build a computer inside of AoE2. As a consequence of this, anything that can run on a computer can (in theory; obviously not in practice) run on a simulated computer inside of AoE2. LLMs run on computers, so therefore they can run in AoE2, and therefore anything an LLM is capable of, AoE2 is capable of.

[–] akunohana@piefed.blahaj.zone 18 points 2 weeks ago

Much appreciated!

[–] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 41 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I have more questions now than before I read that

[–] akunohana@piefed.blahaj.zone 16 points 2 weeks ago

Perhaps these can help?

[–] hooferboof@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

This must be related to https://github.com/adewynter/aoe2-circuits

[–] AnAmericanPotato@programming.dev 26 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

This is cool, but the framing rubs me the wrong way.

The assumption of human-like attributes is a bit of a stretch when you can build an LLM in any substrate

"I can theoretically run arbitrary computer programs inside another computer program" does not hold any philosophical weight.

We've known what Turing-completeness means for many decades now. ANY program you run on your computer can theoretically run on ANY Turing-complete substrate, which includes all kinds of ridiculous things. You could do this with PowerPoint or Minecraft, too. Or with a sufficient number of rocks on a beach.

If this is your first time learning about Turing-completeness, then...well, that's cool! Just don't let it rock your world too hard. :)

Whether LLMs have any "human-like attributes" has nothing to do with the substrate, beyond the point that different substrates will lead to different levels of performance in practice, and some emergent properties might only manifest at higher levels of performance in practice.

Whether a Turing machine (i.e. conventional computer) can theoretically do the same things as a human body is still an open question. (I say "human body" instead of just "human brain" because the brain is not responsible for all of human cognition and behavior, despite popular belief.) It might be fully impossible (unlikely, IMHO), it might require a completely unrealistic scale (most likely, IMHO), or it might be downright trivial once we figure out how.

[–] turdas@suppo.fi 6 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah certain people have really latched onto this paper, when in truth it's pretty much completely meaningless and its only value is the slight novelty of building logic gates in AoE2.

The truth is that we don't really know what consciousness or morality or understanding of natural language is, and we don't know if substrate makes a difference. Theoretical computer science says it doesn't, but we live in a physical universe not a theoretical one, so for all we know it might.

[–] esc@piefed.social -2 points 2 weeks ago

Turing machine isn't a 'conventional computer' in any way it's a model not asomething that can be implemented as described. Philosophical weight has little value anywhere. Author tried to reframe increasingly cultish bullshit that 'ai' crowd loves to push.

[–] akunohana@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 weeks ago

Nice!

[–] Gork@sopuli.xyz 13 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

I do believe we can implement this in real life too with a goat.

[–] akunohana@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

How would we overcome undefined goat behavior without compatible/capable/viable VRMs? Feels like we'd struggle with similar limitations regarding electrogoative force as when we experimened with ternary signaling...

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 weeks ago

With control-goats?

[–] Tetsuo@jlai.lu 4 points 2 weeks ago

You mean using signal-goats ?

[–] Starik@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If AI can become sentient with the right programming, could a planet of goat gates become self-aware?

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago

Since a second or a thousend years is no different to the universe, i guess so.

[–] ApathyTree@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

This reminds me of the dude who built a computer that technically runs doom inside satisfactory or factorio (I think satisfactory).

I’m struggling to find the video now, but he wrote a ton of optimization code to make it run faster, because it’s painfully slow. I think the video was sped up 1,000x or so just to show it was, in fact, playing.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Seen a dude make a Minecraft redstone computer that could play Minecraft inside Minecraft.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 weeks ago

With his own microarchitecture.

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 4 points 2 weeks ago

Looks like a gated "waterfront" community in Miami.