this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2026
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Morality and the law are loosely correlated (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 2 days ago by A404@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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[–] azimir@lemmy.ml 43 points 2 days ago (2 children)

This is a discussion I have in my ethics classes. I like to use Kohlberg's Model of moral development (one of many options) as the framework for the discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development

Under than model, all too many people (upwards of 40% in one study) get stuck at level 4, which means they see the law as the moral system. Dangerous thinking that's often how bullies, political evils, and Authoritarians gain power over the public. Once they can control the laws, those people will just follow along because they can't even envision how challenging the law for humanity's well-being is even possible.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Stage 7: we are just another species on this rock. What if a Rhesus Ape dominated and burned forests for their crop, littered persistent and poisonous plastic everywhere? Would you also sometimes get mad like Elephants do?

Right?

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Who has the right to live?

The spider, which subsists on it's prey? Or the fly, stuck in the spider's web?

[–] im_fine_sandy@nord.pub -3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

That's true, but the purpose of laws is to establish a bare minimum of satisfactory behavior in contemporary society.

That is to say, people who don't understand why you shouldn't steal things, are still held to that standard of behavior.

[–] waltersf@bookwyr.me 26 points 2 days ago (1 children)

if that was the case, the stealing class wouldn't have robbed people for hundreds of years. yet, stealing is now called “profit.”

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No idea why this is being downvoted.

The underlying theory behind The Holocaust, chattle slavery, and segregation was the upholding of property rights. @im_fine_sandy@nord.pub has the problem dead to rights. Holding property above people consistently leads to hypercriminalization of the underclass.

[–] waltersf@bookwyr.me 2 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Because im_fine_sandy is fine with the rule makers owning private properties and capitalization, otherwise they wouldn't demand lawyering be a convention for morality.

Morality existed far longer than laws and court.

Anarchists are saying lawyering made rulers ruler.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 0 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (1 children)

Anarchists are saying lawyering made rulers ruler.

Wait, what?

Which Anarchist has ever said this?

Morality existed far longer than laws and court.

Morality without consensus, which leads to conflict and violence

[–] waltersf@bookwyr.me 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Plenty

Morality without consensus, which leads to conflict and violence

Self-belief, or do you have anthropological evidence demonstrating otherwise?

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Plenty

I can't find this quote anywhere in here.

Self-belief

Doesn't settle disputes

[–] waltersf@bookwyr.me 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Better keep on reading then. ’Cause even both young Marx & Conservative Marx wrote extensively on lawmakers, law enforcement, and courts. Not that I approve of his ideas, I honestly doubt you read even both eras of Marx to be unaware of why laws exist.

Self-belief

Thank you for acknowledging it was your uneducated opinion, and not something I have yet to peer review. Altruism even exists among insects.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

both young Marx & Conservative Marx wrote extensively on lawmakers, law enforcement, and courts

Not in a way that aligns with your beliefs.

Thank you for acknowledging it was your uneducated opinion

If you use words, it helps for you to know what they mean.

Altruism even exists among insects.

Altruism isn't conflict resolution.

[–] waltersf@bookwyr.me 0 points 2 hours ago

Altruism isn’t conflict resolution.

Actually, what do you know about this? I’d be delighted to learn what you earnestly believe this is, and how to achieve this.

[–] diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 days ago (3 children)

This shouldn't have a US flag, it's a fucking global issue.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

The US is a global hegemon.

[–] Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk 2 points 1 day ago

Ah, but you guys are the leaders of the ~~free~~ fascist world.

[–] A404@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

US flag? where??

[–] diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Look behind "FRIENDLY REMINDER"

[–] A404@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago

i see it now aswell

[–] DebraBucket@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago (2 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_by_country_or_territory#/media/File:World_laws_pertaining_to_homosexual_relationships_and_expression.svg

Yellow, Orange and red represent places where it is illegal to be gay with orange and red being places where being gay is punishable by death. In the holocaust, gay people were not just loathed by the Nazis, but also loathed by other groups who were also being persecuted and murdered. When other groups were freed from the concentration camps, gay people were often sent from the camps to prisons due to their “liberators” still considering them to be criminals.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 days ago

Argh, Wikipedia/media duplicating browser functionality is annoying fiddly.

[–] jdr@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago

It should not be illegal to be gay with orange, but it is a bit weird

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Protesting racism wasn't criminalized. The issue was that the legal means to protest racism weren't very effective. So, people intentionally broke certain laws to draw attention to the struggle. The overreaction by the police to those laws being broken drew attention and gained sympathy for the protesters.

[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It should be "resisting" or something. "Protesting" is more specific.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Resisting racism was allowed too. What wasn't allowed was say sitting in the wrong place on the bus.

[–] veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago

Distinction without a difference, functionally speaking.

[–] Noam_Calhoun@lemmy.today 4 points 2 days ago

In a world full of Musks be a George Hayduke.

[–] Danarchy@lemmy.nz 0 points 2 days ago

Dealting it was legal Smellting it was criminalized

[–] waltersf@bookwyr.me 0 points 2 days ago

Liberals be like:
“that's racists!!” in Fraktur

satire
I am extremely aware the illegalization of fonts played also a key role in the Nazi literature burnings. Thus my artistic mockery.