This isn't philosophy anymore, it's just game theory
this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2024
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it's interdisciplinary.
Not even. Game Theory is supposed to take a lot of stuff into account. Boiling it down to this is insulting and a way to paint situations like proxy wars as immoral.
If these are tracks in the US then I just understaff the engineers and maintenance teams and the train derails before I have to make a decision, checkmate.
If these tracks are in the US, so I am. So I shoot the other guy with the gun(s) I usually carry around when I go out and then pull the lever.
wow what an excellent day in the neighbourhood
i sure hope I won't be faced with an ethical dilemma in the very near future
This feels too high quality for a shit post.
Gotta make sure your fiber intake is decent so you get good quality shit like this
Unlike the classic prisoners dilemma, this isn't a nash equilibrium. When I know that the other person pulls their switch, I'd improve my outcome by not pulling mine. Compare to the prisoners dilemma, where not snitching when the other side snitches earns you five years in prison.
And unlike the original trolley problem, pulling the lever will always kill more people. I'd wager most people wouldn't pull this lever because of this, but I agree there's no Nash equilibrium.
This is only superficially a prisoner's dilemma. In a true one, you cannot get a better result for yourself no matter what the other person does, but here if you assume the other person pulled the lever, there is no reason to pull the lever yourself.
To fix this, you can have 4 relatives on the trolley, and 5 of the opposite faction way back on the middle track. Both do nothing, 1 relative of each is killed. One guy switches the lever, their relatives are all fine, other guy loses 5. Both switch, crash with all 8 relatives on the trolley dead.
I see what you're trying to do and you're not necessarily wrong, but you're kinda perpetuating the attitude that inspired someone to make this meme in the first place
I'm not sure I follow. Should this meme's creator not have been inspired?
Touche. But no, my point was more of a haphazard reflection on how both the Trolley Problem and Prisoner's Dilemma are (by design) built on the idea of reducing human life and/or morality and empathy down to a math problem. It is a method of thought that has its purposes, sure, but I think too many people make that their default setting, which makes dehumanization more common, even if subconsciously. Idk man, I'm going through some stuff
Edit: Fixed a pretty bad typo
Given that this problem is given during corporate interviews ... it probably screens for the requisite level of sociopathy.
To quote something I made up and say all the time, “It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose.”
nice. with such wisdom you should have been a captain or something.
Have these folks seen The Good Place? Or are they just approaching the same conclusion by accident?
By far the smartest show ever written and it's not even close!
You need to watch more shows. Don't get me wrong, I like The Good Place and what they were trying to do with it, but yeah no there's a lot of other shows that are just as educational and well written that don't have to do a show-wide reset to start every season
Lmao what. Sure it covers philosophy 101, but not as smart as say, Dark, Mr Robot, Better Call Saul, Watchmen etc.
Those shows are a good way to dip your toes into the subject before you start Rick and Morty.
Questions: why doesn't the person at the switch run and get the person off the tracks? And the people on the trolley hop off or try to the sslow the trolley?
I think this exposes the sadism of philosophy the past few hundred years.
Often, it’s been some rich idle folks making up murderous fantasies in their heads while looking down at my ancestors . “Oh, you don’t know page 273 of Aristotle’s rejoinder? Haha, you must be too poor”.
I think these scenarios might be easier to analyze if we made them a bit more realistic.
This an analogy for military intervention. If we empower our military to be proactive, we can save one "good guy"^TM^ by killing 3 bystanders. But if NATO's adversaries are participating too we lose 3 of our "good guy"^TM^
I think the abstract nature is one of the strengths. If you ask someone a question about military intervention, their pre-existing views towards military intervention will heavily bias their answer.
for the longest time, i did know that game theory did not have anything to do with “games” and that it is somehow connected to the prisoners dilemma, but the concept as such wasn’t very clear to me. If you are like my former me, take 30 minutes out of your day and visit https://ncase.me/trust/ to learn and play around with game theory; it’s a great webpage and it’s pretty good fun all around.
I did a few game theory simulations in college and they were always real interesting. In one of them for example, it was a multiplayer game, with multiple interactions. I think it was to simulate global trade basically: you could cooperate with as many players as you want and each time you cooperate you both get a point. If you defect then you get two and they get none. However, all the players could see what the other players are doing, so if you defected they would know and probably would play (trade) with you. The best way to win was to form as many connections as possible and fully cooperate the whole time.
I formed maybe like 20-30 connections with other players and didn't defect. Each point was worth a few cents or something. So I walked out with a check for like $20-$50 or something. Many players walked out with nothing because they cheated too many people too many times and nobody wanted to trade with them.
Therefore, clearly, the best economic policy is protectionism, tariffs, trade wars, and fucking over both allies and enemies, right? Right?!?
Your simulation seems to only punish selfish actors when that's not always the case. Doesn't include natural monopolies, lacks clandestine exploitation, and there's likely no market capture or saturation. In such a case the only play is to cooperate.