Foxer

Well it's more than that. For us submarines really aren't about combat vessels as much as they are about surveillance platforms.

We have a hell of a lot of ocean that touches our country. Proper surveillance is absolutely critical. Not just of military threats but also criminal and other activity. You can do a certain amount with planes but they can't sit around and later forever watching a vessel and if they do the vessel knows they're being watched. Same as surface vessels.

So even if the Americans were still at work allies we would still need to have a submarine fleet that was large enough to reasonably patrol and monitor the absolutely vast amount of ocean we have to deal with. I don't think that any other country in the world has as much ocean directly touching them was Canada does, so of course we kind of need Subs

What absolute nonsense. Unless you define maga like Policies as being tax breaks and the like there is no comparison between trump's policies and Poilievres. If anything carney was far more trump like, with his build baby build comments and make Canada strong again stuff.

And no, carney is not putting in place PoilievreS economic policies. He said he would, he ran on them, but now he's running away from them. Remember when he promised to deal with interpreneurial trade? Then tried to walk it back when you realized it might be hard? Remember what he said he was going to get rid of the carbon tax but then doubled up the industrial carbon tax and associated fees? He never got rid of the regist legislation that is preventing companies from building pipelines and doing things in Canada, and now he suggesting that the Canadian taxpayer will pay for it just like they did under Justin Trudeau which is the absolute direct opposite of what the conservatives were going for.

Carney's platform was very much like the conservatives but his actual actions are nothing like the conservatives

And carney is absolutely threatening civil rights. Both the left and the right are deeply concerned about his online gestapo bills. The new police powers for search and seizure are deeply worrying. Etc etc

Conservative spending is the opposite of what you're saying. In harper's time for example spending was extremely targeted and did very well and did not flow into the hands of his buddies. Right now we have a scandal where it appears that Brooksfield bought into a company 15 days before carney agreed to give them billions of dollars in bailouts for their condos. Which is exactly what you were just talking about but it's not the conservatives doing it

Poilievre was clear about what his policy was. Get government spending under control and come up with a plan and March towards a balanced budget. Attract business investment to Canada by creating a favorable environment. Keep investment money in Canada by giving a break to those people who invest in Canadian investments instead of moving their money to America which is what has been happening for the last year and change. Focus on correcting the mistakes and problems of the last 10 years and get crime under control

None of those are bad things. You can say what you like but those are all things that even if you feel there are other priorities out there you can't say that those are bad things. And none of that is happening under Carney

She didn't resign for anything else. She resigned because of the furor over a $14 glass of orange juice.

And once again you're basically trying to skirt the issue. No matter how you slice it or however you want to spin it there was a huge outcry over a $14 glass of orange juice mostly from the left. That same left that is now accepting a million dollars a year in airline food is being perfectly justified. That is just an absolute fact and cannot be disputed

So the issue here comes back to the same thing, hypocrisy. You suggest the party was bad but at the same time there were no major corruption scandals in the entire time that the conservatives were in power. Orange juice is not corruption. Even the Mike Duffy Scandal was an example of harper believing something corrupted happened and forcing somebody to make it right. If we had that kind of correction in politics canada would be a hell of a lot better off 😂

And you're here trying to suggest that somehow the conservatives were worse and that photo was really bad while excusing carney and his million dollar airline food bill and the scandals were already beginning to see from him, And dismissing Justin scandals

That is hypocrisy my friend.

It's the first you've heard of it then glad to help educate you 😜

There's no doubt that the original architects of the party very much felt that the west was being excluded. But that's not why the public flocked to them.

And yeah, the PC party did worse than the reform who had no support outside of western Canada. And reduced them to 4 seats. And that would just keep getting worse for the PC until the reform took them over. You're kind of making my point for me here . Conservative voters turned their back on the PC and it no longer exists. And conservative voters did not wait 15 or 20 years before taking that party out permanently.

As to your claim that a core 20 to 30% that the Liberals and Conservatives have will refuse to vote for anyone else, while that may be true, the difference is that the liberals will still keep voting Liberal, whereas the Conservatives will not vote at all. Even if they know that it means that a party they dislike will get in and sees power they will refuse to vote for the corrupt party or they will break down and vote for someone else.

For example when the PC party was wiped out as you correctly note only a tiny percentage of the party was still willing to vote PC. And that was so scattered as to be meaningless.

On the other hand despite the snc leveling scandals the we scandals the agacon scandals and all of the other scandals which seem to show up about once every two or three months the core liberal supporters kept showing up and voting liberal. The CPC actually won more of the popular vote and two out of the three last elections but the core liberal support kept the liberals empowered despite obvious corruption

There's no comparing them. Conservative and NDP voters will trash their party completely and have done so many times if they detect corruption. Liberal voters do not

Carney doesn't play 3d chess. Carney plays the "shell game" con, where you think you're following the cup with the pea under it but he's used slight of hand to deceive the viewer and win the game.

It doesn't require a lot of smarts, just practice. And he's had a lot of practice.

Oh absolutely true, don't get me wrong I wasn't suggesting for real was in any way shape or form good for the Alberta economy or province. I was just pointing out that as bad as he was currently isn't substantially better

It was the orange juice. That's what the media focused on and everyone talked about. And her entire expense budget even accounting for inflation is a tiny tiny tiny fraction of what we see the liberals doing

You can play whatever mental gymnastics you like but at the end of the day it's still a massive amount of hypocrisy by people who don't care about the truth and only care about their tribe

In what way was the candidate dramatically works on Progressive policies? Jimmy would have fired government workers? Do you mean he would have built more Pipelines and pumped more oil? Or is it that you are worried that he wouldn't have attacked freedom of speech quite as aggressively as the liberals have with their online bills?

There was no threat to Progressive policies with Poilievre. Or at least none that are not threatened already. And the simple fact of the matter is that the more the carney runs our economy and debt into the dirt, the more that Progressive people and poor people will suffer when eventually that has to be corrected and we can't borrow any more money. You may be too young to remember how badly people suffered for the first Trudeau's overspending when that had to be corrected, this time it's going to be in order of magnitude worse and that date will come

I'll give you that, although he's not much better. He's talking about the possibility of building a pipeline, Justin built a pipeline. And his price for doing that is a massive increase in carbon taxes for the oil fields which will make them far less competitive globally. So I don't know about the whole nowhere close business. He may not be as bad but I don't know that he's that far off

So if I say something you don't like I'm 'spamming' ? LOL How very intolerant!

But no, it was the $14 orange juice. It became a massive thing all on its own I was considered a sign that she was living it up at the taxpayers expense. But now those same people who screamed to the High Heavens about that aren't batting an eye at Carney's insane lavish food budget for airline food of all things

And that is pure hypocrisy whether I'm in here three days or 3,000

The reform party was a brand new party. The only reason it existed was because conservative voters were disgusted with the corruption and bad behavior of the PC party.

I mean if we're being 100% honest Mulroney was actually doing a fairly decent job. And no conservative wanted to see chretien get in.

But conservatives determined that the party was toast, so they created a new party and through the old one in the garbage. That's what they're prepared to do when they see corruption

And no it is absolutely ridiculous to think that the liberal voters punish the liberal party by voting from over only. That absolutely did not happen. The liberal party continued on just fine it was not destroyed or wiped out in any way shape or form. People just like Mulroney better than they like John Turner

When you're reduced to below party status you've been wiped out politically. You might recover but let's not pretend otherwise. Conservative voters have wiped their parties out to the point where they are no longer official parties And so have the NDP. The liberals have never done so. So I'm afraid you're 100% incorrect there

The liberals lost and they lost badly in Ontario. I mean they had gone through four elections was a major thing with the liberals and they survived just fine. As it is what they say they lost the election badly but the party was not wiped out. They still have more seats then than the NDP has federally now

The liberal party Had corruption scandal after corruption scandal for over a decade and the liberal voters kept it in power and now they've been returned to a majority. And we're already seeing corruption scandals with Carney but liberal voters just don't care

Liberal voters will tolerate almost any level of corruption, to be honest it's getting to the point where it's practically a prerequisite. And EP voters and conservative voters are far less tolerant with conservatives being the least tolerant.