this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2026
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[–] baronvonj@piefed.social 8 points 19 hours ago (4 children)

Turning in a ballot with an empty selection is exactly the way to send the "voting for nobody" message that non-voters convince themselves they are sending, rather than the "you don't need to care about my opinion on the issues because I don't vote" message that it actually sends.

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 21 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (3 children)

I cannot tell you how many sanctimonious jackasses I've met in my life that think their non-action is "sending a message".

Staying home or doing performative nonsense like not selecting a candidate or voting third party is basically non-action, and virtually no one sees the message or cares.

I thought it rather silly when I was still in university and hearing it from peers. These days, when someone my age tells me they have been doing this for decades I usually ask him them who has gotten their "message" and what was done about it?

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

One of the recent local elections i voted in had a list of 3 shit Republicans for sheriff. I chose to vote for none of them. Every other ballot choice i filled out.

[–] baronvonj@piefed.social 10 points 17 hours ago

We've tried nothing and we're out of ideas!

[–] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz -2 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

voting third party is basically non-action

Unless the elections are rigged any party has the same chances of winning, stop spreading misinformation and propaganda, voting a third party is as much action as voting red and blue is.

[–] joe@lemmy.world 5 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Unless the elections are rigged any party has the same chances of winning

This is not an accurate statement. Plurality voting inevitably results in a two party system, due to the spoiler effect.

Until we switch away from plurality voting, voting for a third party helps the party you least align with. It's math. If you're thinking of a scenario where magically a majority of voters all vote for a third party, you're not taking this seriously; that is not a realistic scenario.

Now, if you live in Maine, Alaska, or whatever other places that have switched from plurality voting (a) I'm very jealous and (b) you're encouraged to vote any third party as you see fit.

[–] baronvonj@piefed.social 8 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

The overall election rules are rigged in favor of the D/R duopoly. I have several big posts, with sources, on the current statistics. To summarize:

  • 3 out of 535 members of US Congress are independent or 3rd party. One of them elected as R and changed in office. One won the D nomination before turning it down and running as independent
  • Fewer than 100 out of >7200 state level legislators.
  • Zero EC votes for a 3rd party presidential candidate since 1968, including Ross Perot when he won 19% of the national popular vote
  • No 3rd party was on the ballot in all 50 states in 2024, only 3 were in more than 10 states

Unless you have an independent or 3rd party incumbent, or have some form of ranked choice in your district the winner will be either the D or R nominee.

[–] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz -3 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Your argument is that elections are rigged because a third party never got voted for?

[–] baronvonj@piefed.social 5 points 11 hours ago

I'm showing the observations that would lead one to hypothesize that the elections are rigged against 3rd parties. If you can look at the gerrymandered districts, the ballot access rules, the minimum percentage of the vote needed for public funding, the plurality-based vote counting, etc and then combine that with the statistically non-existent representation of 3rd party and independent legislators at the state and federal level and not suspect that the elections are rigged against 3rd parties then I don't know what to else to say to you.

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 0 points 8 hours ago

LOL, it's not misinformation to state the fact that voting third party is basically pissing away your vote. There is no real serious third party option. Maybe we can talk about some other country or some future where a serious party emerges in this country. Until then, what I said is truth.

[–] Mpeach45@lemmy.world 4 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

There’s always a worse choice of the choices for who to vote for.

Vote for the other one.

[–] baronvonj@piefed.social 2 points 14 hours ago

The only perfect candidate for you is you yourself. If you're not running, and you don't have some form of ranked choice, not voting against the worse candidate is one fewer vote they need to overcome in order to win. And for your 1 vote against them, they need two for them to get ahead.

[–] DomeGuy@lemmy.world 10 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

On a practical matter the message is still "both are equally acceptable to me", with a small shade of a slightly louder "I wish there was someone better".

[–] baronvonj@piefed.social 3 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

But it indicates you actively participate and are therefore a winnable vote. That means campaigns are more likely to reach out to you in some way.

[–] DomeGuy@lemmy.world 3 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Since votes are secret, it really just indicates "I voted is this election and are 50/49/1 percent likely to have voted winner/runner-up/either"

I think not voting at all is a stronger message of "I wasn't encouraged to actually vote for or against either", but it's also indistinguishable from "I just don't care anymore" or "I was in a coma that November"

[–] baronvonj@piefed.social 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I think not voting at all is a stronger message

Have you observed that to be moving the DNC to the left over the past few decades? My observation is that after Kamala received fewer votes than Biden and lost to Trump, in the face of the historic (yet still measly) 4% of the primary vote being for Uncommitted, the entrenched neoliberals are digging in their heels and continuing to oppose progressive primary candidates in 2025 and 2026 primaries. My conclusion is that they don't care, and we can't trust them to get any message other than "you're fired, and being replaced by this progressive candidate." And the only way to do that is by voting for a progressive primary challenger in the primary.

I see people who don't vote saying they never receive any flyers, calls, texts, canvassers, or any other kind of outreach from any campaigns. And then I see people who voted in either the primary or the general say they are bombarded with those types of outreach. So it's hard for me to conclude anything other than that campaigns by and large ignore people with a public record of not voting. Because it's harder and costs more to get a non-voter to vote than it is to get a voter to vote against the opposition. And in first-past-the-post, that is truly what your vote is in the general. Not a vote for the best, but a vote against the worst who is most likely to win.

[–] DomeGuy@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

"First-past-the-post" is a terrible moniker to describe the sort of single ballot plurality wins elections common in the USA. It's metaphor is clumsy to the point of inaccuracy, since there isn't any predermined scale that declares a winner. Whether only 3 votes are cast or 3 million, the winner is whomever has the biggest pile. A better sports metaphor might be "shotput", but I think "plurality wins" is clear enough.

That being said, that the democratic establishment is ignoring the signals doesn't mean that they aren't relatively strong. The party's voters are moving to the left, so even if the consultant gang isn't responding to the collective "ew" of Uncommitted someone is.

[–] baronvonj@piefed.social 2 points 14 hours ago

Yeah, agreed on the wording.

What I mean is whether the signal is being ignored or misinterpreted is kind of immaterial. The desired result is not being observed, so a different tactic is required. We consistently have more non-voters than primary voters, so why not try voting in the primaries where each vote carries more weight than it does in the general? It certainly can't be construed as a tacit approval of neoliberal policies like a vote for such a nominee in the general could be. So you still get a more clear and direct message than you did with non-voting.

[–] Trampampoline@sh.itjust.works 1 points 12 hours ago

you just wrote 'die' on a piece of paper...

"I'm aware."