Canada

But for the F35 program, backing out right now would hurt us more, no?

We've already paid for some of them. The question is if we should buy the rest of the 88, or cut our losses.

I mean the Danes have an even bigger reason than us to not buy F35s, and even they still went ahead with it in Oct 2025.

They also have different needs, don't forget. It's a tiny country in the heart of Europe. The Gripen's one advantage means little there, and there's no situation they would be up against the US alone.

In that case, we’re winning with drones (a combination of Ukraine + Iran + Afghanistan).

Even that way is iffy. Drones are supposed to be expendable, so you need to build a lot to fight like Ukraine, and have an organised way to deploy them en mass across a front line. We aren't going to keep a serious American invasion out of our populated areas long enough for that.

In Iran, the US fights entirely from the air with as little risk to American lives as possible. Since we share a border, that's not really an option for them, if they invade.

Think more Afghanistan, but with unmanned suicide bombers.

Our airstrips, maintenance facilities, fuel depots, all of it would be targeted and destroyed first. Gripens, F35s, it doesn’t matter - our planes would be grounded.

The trick with the Gripen is that it doesn't need any of that. Just enough people to move it and it's bombs around, fuel in jerry cans and a dirt runway.

It still costs a lot, though, so the general point about planes being a weird tool for the job applies.

But if we’re looking at this from the standpoint of pure good faith, where we only look at defense capabilities for ourselves and NATO (through our armed forces), then the F35s are just better, no?

Yes.

Or, pretty close. Yes unless NATO is itself in a guerilla war, against aliens, or something.