this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2026
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How's that messed up? This is literally how the natural world works. Predators eat prey. We are the apex predator species.
Natural does not mean we should do something? Cannibalism is also natural, but we rightly find that horrible
Brushing aside moral considerations, cannibalism leads to things like kuru, so that's a no go either way.
I have no qualms eating animals, provided they weren't factory farmed.
On a related note, it's worth mentioning that factory farming is the vast majority of global meat, dairy, egg, etc, production
https://www.sentienceinstitute.org/global-animal-farming-estimates
https://www.sentienceinstitute.org/us-factory-farming-estimates
That's why I prefer New Zealand or Australian lamb. Just lamb living their best lamb lives out on pastures.
Can't wait for deer season this year so I can restock on venison.
New Zealand's pasture based systems aren't exactly the idealistic visions people have of them. Even just environmentally, their attempts to scale them up have required huge amounts of fertilizer and lead to huge amounts of pollution. For instance for their dairy production:
https://theconversation.com/11-000-litres-of-water-to-make-one-litre-of-milk-new-questions-about-the-freshwater-impact-of-nz-dairy-farming-183806
Damn, guess I'll just keep eating 100% factory farmed then.
You can always stop eating meat
That is the next stage of the purity test, yes, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the .ml OP wouldn't be satisfied with that either.
I was going to reply to your earlier comment, but I'm now seeing there is little interest in any good faith discussion
Since your comments in this thread clearly show you aren't interested in good faith discussion in the first place, I'm perfectly happy with you not replying to my comments.
My comments, which are heavily sourced and cited, show that?
Yup. Very, very clearly, because you refuse to even entertain the idea that any form of eating meat can be an ethical choice.
All of your comments here are obviously propaganda, and so by their very nature are not intended to be in good faith.
Given that any meat a normal person consumes is produced unethically in deplorable conditions, I don't think it can be the ethical choice. If you raise the animals yourself and kill them quickly and humanely, sure. Or even go hunting and eat the meat. Fish and eat the fish. Otherwise, I don't see how anyone could contend it's ethical.
My dad is a conservative red blooded american, and he rarely consumes meat because he has worked in and around a number of factory farms of varying sizes. From chickens, pigs, to cattle. It's all produced in truly abhorrent ways.
Your attitude betrays some level of cognitive dissonance imo, but what do I know, I'm just a lemming.
Cool opinion bro.
And you'll certainly make sure that you stay that way, I'm sure. That's kinda the point of my above comment.
Anytime you engage in discussion without leaving open the possibility that your position could be wrong, that's propaganda, and is intentionally not engaging in good faith.
I think i'd be more apt to consider your opinion if you were less aggressive and had posited a single argument. Dismissing something with a hand wave isn't exactly a convincing argument. I'm open to hearing how you believe modern factory farming and meat consumption is ethical in your framework
edit: I even posted the ways I would find eating meat ethical -- I don't really understand the anger and hostility
I never said that I believed that. My original comment was only intended to call out OP's bullshit purity tests and the negative outcomes that will result as people grow discouraged and give up from having someone belittle what is very clearly an intentional effort to be better.
We're all doing the best we can.
I would hope most people are, but the reality is that we consume staggeringly more meat than ever before, by an order of magnitude. It is possible and even less expensive to consume a vegetarian diet, given you are blessed to live outside a food desert. I hold no judgement for folks existing in a terrible system and worrying about things other than animal welfare. This is a result of systems beyond the average person's control, and more than likely, knowledge.
To say that we're doing the best we can is untrue in a vacuum. Perhaps education on the topic of animal agriculture would enable people to make choices that are kinder to animals, earth, and themselves.
I have no interest in consuming a vegetarian diet - my only ethical problem is with factory farming specifically, and on that front I'm doing the best that I can considering all of the far more important problems currently facing society.
I personally feel that convenience and personal taste is less important than the suffering of billions of animals. Your personal taste has a small impact on the total suffering, of course, but the sum of meat eaters taken together creates the demand that necessitates factory farming.
If you voluntarily consume meat given the means of accessing the alternatives, then I say the choice is not ethical. How you or anyone else personally weighs that choice against other concerns is up to you. I'm posting this from a phone more than likely made by children working untenable hours. When I discard it, it'll likely pollute a poor country. I know we have to pick our battles, so again, no judgement. I do like to discuss these things though! :)
I don't believe that meat consumption has to involve (much) animal suffering, and I'm in favor of taking steps toward that goal.
Hopefully lab-grown meat will take off soon and the whole argument will be a moot point.
Thanks for the conversation. :)
I too want lab grown meat! Anyway ditto - cheers
We were talking about how dominant factory farming is, and how things that try not to do that do not scale. The response to that was to ignore this and throw up hands and say "eh, guess we can't do anything". Am I'm supposed to instead assume that one has to eat meat and ignore that we don't have to?
No, that's what you were doing, and I wasn't putting up with your purity test bullshit. My response is what most people will respond with when confronted with "All of the effort you're putting in to trying to be better has been completely wasted because it's not perfect."
We're all doing what we can.
There's another option you never considered: reducing consumption and reduction. I would very much say reducing consumption is a step toward a better world. I'm not going to tell someone there efforts are wasted if they're doing that, I'm going to encourage them to keep going further
I meant within this conversation. The options you presented did not include that and made a false claim on my beliefs
I understanding that everything I say is being distorted through the lens of anger, but please don't make the worst interpretations of what I am saying
I want you to vision the future you want to see. If the future in your vision is, at minimum, a world without factory farming, that's going to require massive decreases in animal product consumption and production. That's going to take require action from all of us to get there
Who doesn't love dying during childhood?