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A state that is pretty much guaranteed a democratic win is the only place where voting 3rd party isn't a gop spoiler and can actually mean something...
You both have a point. And I agree with you both. If only you could agree with each other. Yes when you're in a blue State like california. You absolutely have the privilege and luxury of voting for someone other than the two major parties. Because your States vote will safely be delivered to one of them consistently. But it was an actual issue on top of the bigger issue of Democrats being professional losers. Because let's not forget that a lot of the loss Biden and Harris fought for hard.
But if I had a dime for every privileged blue stater's vitriolic statements against those of us in red or purple States. Trying to promote some sort of solidarity against Trump. I'd have hundreds of dollars or more. All the condescending holier-than thou bullshit. Bullshit that's ramping up again might I add.
Here in a red state, my vote is meaningless in a statewide election as well. And I might express that in close company of neighbors. National Democrats don't even invest or try here most of the time. But if I am in mixed or unknown company, ie online. I would never attack others for implying otherwise, or stating that the people should show solidarity. (Like many on fedi actively do) They're right. Everyone doesn't have identical circumstances. And as Tom said, in consequential elections we need to stand together. Even if the candidate is imperfect.
I also live in a red state (I guess it used to be purple, but last time it was blue was before I was even born both at the presidential and Congress level). Voting for Dems on any level outside of the couple city districts basically does nothing. It's why I find my vote better spent on third parties at every level. I'd rather be happy my vote went to someone I liked than wasted on someone I don't.
That's 100% valid. I definitely feel the same fairly often here on the outskirts of the city where I'm at. However I would never publicly tell people that they should do that. Especially people I don't know. People whose circumstances I can't be sure of. It's a decision that everyone has to make for themselves. And no one should ridicule anyone for asking for solidarity to stand against fascists. And yet many do.
That may be true, but last round, where was the decent third party candidate?
Stein had as part of her platform that Ukraine should surrender to Russia on the name of peace, for example.
that is not what she said
Ok, so the platform page had: "Stop fueling the war between Russia and Ukraine and lead on negotiating a peaceful end" This was just a stupid statement, acting like Russia didn't just up and unilaterally invade a nation.
She said NATO should be disbanded. She wanted the UN Security Council both to be abolished and yet at the same time wanted the UN Security Council to hold Israel accountable.
Her platform was a lot of Russia's invasion was actually all the fault of the west and the best way forward was to just capitulate to Russian aggression.
She was just a total shit candidate, with a lot of Russian agenda points featured in her campaign.
she explicitly, and immediately called the Russian invasion illegal.
I want to disband nato. I think the security council should be disbanded.
nato posturing was threatening to Russia. that doesn't justify the invasion. she never excused it
So, it's ok to promote spoilers, as long as you're in an area where it won't have any impact on the outcome?
You get how that still has the overall effect of legitimizing their role in other areas, right? You're basically doing unpaid advertising for the opposition, and proving that this strategy is effective...while doing literally nothing to benefit your own position.
Which is exactly what 3rd parties are for in the US. At best, they are entirely ineffective. At worse, they help the opposition to maintain power.
At best they're an indication of a demographic that wants a change that isn't the other major party, signalling to the party that they might benefit from pivoting at least a little in that direction. That signal is usually ignored, of course, but we are talking about "at best".
You're assuming they represent a genuine alternative to the two major parties. What I'm saying is that they are a manufactured alternative, intended to dilute the opposition vote.
Jill Stein and several other Green party representatives all but admitted that this was the case during the 2024 election. They knew they had no chance of winning, and their stated intention was only to make sure the Democrats lost.
they also wanted the Republicans to lose
I'm making no such assumption. Even if the third party is acting in extremely bad faith my statement holds up just as well.