412
Trump boasts he ordered DOJ to sue Alaska to get election result tossed out if they lose
(www.independent.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2026
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politics
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I can't blame the bro for leaving. The Jewish people who stayed in Nazi Germany until it was too late, mostly died. There was no virtue in staying, no bravery, no solidarity with the other victims. It didn't change anything, except for them dying instead of living. It didn't help anyone except the nazis to kill them. There was no reason to stay.
Every one of the victims would have been better off leaving while they could, so anyone staying behind and saying "no guys, stay behind with me or else I'll call you all cowards" harms their fellows far worse than the ones saying "I'm leaving while I can, and you should too."
Besides, bro can still vote by mail. There's literally no reason to stay if you have somewhere else you can go. Not leaving does nothing to help the people who can't leave.
And if I'm reading their comment right, they didn't call you a bootlicker. Unless, that is, if you were at J6. In which case, well...
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" is the full quote he used there. It's a call to revolutionary action by Thomas Jefferson. He's condemning the lack of some kind of violent response to the Jan 6th stuff while himself big chillin somewhere cozy on the wealth he managed to extract from the USA (read: it's victims around the world). Feels a lot less like a persecuted jew taking flight, and a lot more like someone's nephew setting up shop in Argentina.
Whether or not you can make a difference by standing your ground and showing a little solidarity is a whole other can of worms, more debatable but I'm stuck here and can't help resenting someone who's clearly got the resources to help for bailing instead. If you can't see any virtue bravery or solidarity in the people who helped one another survive ghettos and concentration camps, the people who smuggled those actually in danger to freedom, or the people who formed literal armed resistance movements I really don't know what to tell you
I know the quote. The point the commenter was making is that the people who always chant it (i.e., 2A folks) were, in the end, the ones who stormed the Capitol at the behest of their favorite dictator.
You don't know that the commenter is chilling on a pile of wealth. He might be a sysadmin and got a job at some startup in Estonia for all you know. Try not making uncharitable assumptions about people while preaching from your high martyrdom horse.
Solidarity isn't unilateral, and unless you're lucky enough to live somewhere where that actually exists among your neighbors, then no exertion of willpower on your part will make it happen. And yeah, standing your ground alone is suicidal.
That sucks, I'm stuck here too, but I don't resent people who get out while they can, because if I could I would too. Your resentment is your problem, not theirs.
That's a misreading of what I said. When did I say that? I said the people demanding that others stay did more harm to anyone foolish enough to listen to them. Bringing a few dozen extra neighbors to the camps with them wouldn't save anybody. Are we crabs in a bucket?
Which one of those things are you doing, by the way? Are you helping anyone survive? Are you smuggling anyone to freedom? Are you forming an armed resistance? And if the other commenter stayed, do you think they'd be in any position to do those things either?
Or is all you're doing demanding that people stay and keep themselves in danger? If I offered to let you climb over me to escape the bucket, wouldn't you take me up on it? Would you remain behind just to keep pulling others down when they try to climb out?
This is honestly too much for me to reply to through a phone, so here's a few poorly articulated bullet points.
Assuming everyone who thinks a state monopoly on violence is bad is against you is idiotic and self defeating. Even on a reread (which I did before replying to you earlier and again just now) I'm pretty confident they're making the equally dumb assertation that there should have been an armed response to the J6 bullshit and that the lack thereof is somehow hypocritical.
It's expensive as hell to move at all, emigration moreso, and anyone able to make it out of here was doing pretty well in the first place to pull that off. Community is pretty much all I've got, and I build that every day through consistent participation. Whether I want to or not, because we need each other. It absolutely takes 'willpower' and has nothing at all to do with luck. That's exactly what makes it happen and the only thing that can.
Re: resentment? Nobody's perfect, said I couldn't help it, their attitude and the criticism coming down from such a privileged position got to me. You have no idea how life changing even the price of dude's plane ticket out itself would be down here. He's the crab who made it out and is kinda being a dick about it, where I'm committed to tipping the bucket if I want to live (solidarity/collective action is the only hope of pulling that off).
You literally said there was no virtue, bravery, or solidarity in staying behind and doing so changed nothing, wish I could quote.
The attempted callout is deeply hypocritical a couple lines after telling me not to make uncharitable assumptions, and I'm not about to dox myself to validate the efforts I make to you. Absolutely working my ass off to get myself and others through this though, despite often failing to do so. The tendency for anyone with the resources to do so to put the Rational Self Interest we're conditioned for above the needs of the many really doesn't help. They're in a much better position to help than I am and chose not to.
Begging, pleading, entreating would all be better words than demanding for whatever the hell it is I'm doing here. Not exactly operating from a position of power. I've turned down opportunities for myself because of the position it would leave my community in more than once, it's what makes me a part of it and what lets me feel like a good person.
Let's reread what they said:
That reads to me as: "The people who quote that line turned out to be the ones who support fascism." In other words, "The don't tread on me people turned out to enjoy being treaded on/treading on others."
Maybe you read it differently, but if my reading is correct, then I'd say the other commenter wasn't lying. Calling that "assuming everyone who thinks a state monopoly on violence is bad" is... a take...
Okay. That's a privilege. If you think everyone in this country has that opportunity, you're assuming everyone is in a similar situation as your own, which is ignorant.
Do you think a trans person in Alabama could build community solidarity by an act of willpower alone? Or a gay man in Nebraska, or a lesbian woman in Utah, or a Latino person in Mississippi?
I'm assuming from your words that your neighbors are mostly anti-maga. Do you really think that's the norm everywhere in this country? Because if it was, we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.
And by the way, are you assuming that the other commenter is a cishetero white man? Because if literally anyone else were to get out while they could, would you still be so opposed to it? I didn't see anything in their comment that indicates one way or another.
Let's look at the rest of their comment:
Obviously talking about the government here, who failed to prosecute the leaders of that insurrection.
I would be too.
They ain't wrong.
What about this sounds condescending to you?
Doing so literally changes nothing, ergo there is no virtue or bravery in it, only stupidity (if it's done by choice when there's an alternative option, at least).
You might be able to argue that there can be solidarity in that, but it's the solidarity of crabs in the steamer. There's no shame in climbing overboard, but there is shame in dragging someone back down when they're trying to climb out. Not sure how you don't see that.
The cost of a plane ticket is not enough to fix this mess. Just because they got outta here doesn't mean they could have done anything to help even if they had stayed.
None of us are, dude. That's why some of us leave.
Would you do the same if 90% of your community were malicious, ignorant magas?
My brother in Christ, you're ignoring pretty much all of what I already made my best effort to communicate and this doesn't feel productive or fun. If you're going to rehash the original comment, maybe quote the whole thing instead of just the lines that, out of context, support the point you want to make. I'm here for a conversation, but you're treating it more like a contest and that just makes me want to forfeit. Calling community a privilege "is... a take...". I'm a fuckin bigshot in mine because I have this phone and a car to sleep in. It's the one thing available to literally everyone that can't be bought, sold or taken away and is maintained exclusively through participation. Fuck your fixation on identity too, you have no idea who I am or where I'm coming from or what life is like for the constructs you prop up so glibly to make your point. Community is absolutely available to every one of those people and exactly how they survive those environments. You can find it in a prison and I have. You can find it in a concentration camp and I will. I guarantee I have a much closer relationship with the human beings behind the shallow strawmen you present here than you do and that the kind of "support" you're offering would piss them off. Community is about shared purpose and meeting needs, not performative politics. Ignorance is entirely forgiveable, most things are. Just have to be genuine, well intentioned, and in this together. If you want to see what that's like, try leaving home without your wallet for a while.
I literally addressed every point you made; meanwhile you ignore everything I said and merely go on the attack, and you accuse me of arguing in bad faith?
Literally everyone who has responded to you has told you that you clearly misread the original comment, and you refuse to concede that maybe you were mistaken from the start?
I don't know why you were expecting this to be "fun" though, did you think we're here to entertain you?
I quoted the entire comment. You read it wrong from the start and you won't just admit that.
Am I? I don't think I am, but you're the one framing it as "forfeit" so apparently you're viewing it that way...
It is a privilege. Not everyone has that. If you can't even grasp that other people's lived realities may be different from your own, then you have as little empathy as a republican.
I'm not fixated on identity, you're just making assumptions about the other commenter and I called you out on it.
I never claimed to know anything about you other than what you've volunteered. I'm not the one making assumptions about you.
Also, what do you mean by "constructs"? I asked you if you're against various kinds of vulnerable minorities leaving the country if they can, or if it's only because you're assuming details about the other commenter that you're so against them leaving.
While you're dodging the question, and referring to those minorities as "constructs," you accuse me of "propping them up" and claim I don't know what life is like for them? You seem to be the one devoid of empathy here.
You don't know what life is like for queer people living in right-wing areas, and it shows.
What fucking strawman am I presenting? You have a close relationship with the people in your community, sure, I never denied that. But where you err is in assuming every town in america is exactly the same as yours and trying to generalize your experience to encompass everyone else whom you don't even know. That is lacking empathy.
First of all, you don't know a thing about me or the support I offer or to whom. Second of all, you're talking about "them" as if "they" are some a abstract category, that happen to also be a monolith whom you can personally speak for. That's only more evidence that you lack empathy, and you're the one using "them" as a prop.
All I asked you is if you would feel the same way about someone leaving the country if you knew they were a vulnerable minority (which, by the way, you still haven't answered), and how you expect people who are vulnerable minorities to build solidarity when they're isolated in communities that don't support them (which again, you refuse to address and simply assert that it isn't a real problem and I somehow just made it up?).
So being queer in a right-wing area where everyone wants you dead is "performative politics" to you?
In this entire thread, you're the only one being performative. All I've said is to have some freaking empathy for others, and you refuse to understand or even acknowledge that some people's circumstances could differ from your own.
And also, I might add, you tend to assume that whoever you're arguing with is some caricature of some privileged, out-of-touch, ignoramus, without ever inquiring about the details of who they actually are. Makes me strongly feel this might be projection on your part.
I've been homeless, jackass. Don't preach to me about what it's like to struggle.
Not sure why you're making this about me, though. I sure as hell wasn't making this about me. I simply came to bat for the commenter you initially replied to, because I saw that you were treating them unfairly. Everyone else here sees it too. Other than that, I've got no horse in this race.
You know though, at first I thought you were serious and could actually be reasoned with, or might be worth the time. But now I see you're just a troll. So I'm done wasting my time on you.
Can you just leave me alone? Or at least like, quit wielding minority identities as a weapon? I did try to talk around that even though it's kinda fucked up, but now you're going full tribunal talking about I'm "dodging the question". I don't want to engage on that level at all but can't help stating I very much know what life is like for "queer people in right wing areas" and there is no fuckin way you've ever spent a single week actually on the street homeless. Said night first but you never know, the fuck ever that has to do with whether the third party you're so confident speaking for was calling the American government or the American left the real bootlickers in a post about election interference. Talking about "no horse in this race" out here chasing me around on a goddamn horse, coming at me about "vulnerable minorities" and trying to other me at the same damn time, literally confrontational over even the idea that posting can be fun of all things. You fuckin suck and I'm fuckin cold. Genuinely the worst interaction I have had on here to date
You're not fucking serious. From the start you went on the attack, I came to the defense of somebody I don't even know because you were being unreasonable. And then you start attacking me, deflecting all my attempts at reasoning with you, and then accusing me of being callous towards minorities because I had the gall to remind you that some people are in extremely vulnerable situations right now so maybe you shouldn't be going around shaming people for leaving the country when you don't know a thing about their background? And you say I'm wielding them as a weapon?
If you actually knew a gotdamn thing about what it's like to be queer in a right-wing area then you wouldn't be claiming that willpower alone is enough to build solidarity while also claiming that having a supportive community is somehow not a privilege.
Everything you've said has been deflection and blame, you've offered nothing of substance besides your heartfelt desire to be a martyr and pull everyone down with you. Stop romanticizing victimhood. It fucking sucks, and if you had any real empathy you would understand that. Let people do what they need to to survive, and if that means getting to safety before it's too late then let them do so without lumping shame on them for not being fools.
If you're not having fun then stop replying, nothing is compelling you to do so. Your account is one fucking day old, so calling this "your worst interaction to date" doesn't mean shit. Try not being an asshole and then crying foul when somebody calls you out on your shit.
The original commenter was not calling "the american left" bootlickers, as was obvious from their comment, as everyone else here easily recognized. And the fact that you're still digging in about that tells me you're being disingenuous, you came here to start shit, and this whole fucking conversation has been a waste of time because you're a troll and I just need to stop feeding you.
I did not read this one and consider this harassment. Again, please leave me alone.
Your DARVO is so easy to see through.
I don't know what that is and don't want to. Please leave me alone.
It's what you're doing. You can literally stop responding any time you want to.