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Imperial plunder? We've never gotten any of that, we only get the bill, we've never gotten any real benefit from imperial adventurism.
And plenty of people are against it. The ones for it have to be by and large lied to for months if not years as to reasons, just like they are doing with Iran right now to start the forever war in the region. The third Persian Gulf War.
What do you mean you never got any of it? All the cheap shit that comes from the hyper exploited global south? The bananas that cost 50 cents? The giant TVs that cost 200 bucks? The labor aristocracy is very much a real thing.
We get the bill. We don't get lower gas prices from Iraq. We don't get free bananas either, the companies get to make money on selling the bananas.
None of or foreign wars have helped American taxpayers in any real way while costing fortunes. That's just beyond dispute, hundreds of billions of dollars, or more, in afghanistan and Iraq. No benefit from Vietnam, no real benefit from the cold war coups in latin america.
Big business made money, getting markets, that they sell here at the highest price they can get for it.
In your analysis, do you bother looking at the working and living conditions of the western countries versus the global south, or are you just looking at the wars themselves and only from the perspective of taxes? How do you think the inequity of those conditions are maintained?
You're denying the thing by only looking at part of the thing. Obviously the capitalists aren't doing any of this for the public good. Capitalism needs a consumer class. That class resides within the imperial core. But for instance, the idea that making the #1 and #2 largest OPEC countries US vassal states has nothing to do with energy prices is just goofy.
Not at all, looking at the totality of these things it's even worse for working people, as it gives power to illiberal forces in society, it creates killers that can be used to assassinate civil society leaders, most of all it enriches and makes powerful the oligarchs that are subverting our governments, using corrupt influence to exloit us, moreso than already, and to crush dissent and organized labor and the like.
The more you step back, the more the accounting shows a deficit for working people on all scores.
You are again shifting the argument from the existence of a labor aristocracy. If you want to defend the concept of the imperial boomerang, go find someone who is disputing it.
I don't really know what you're on about here, I'm just expounding the factors for our high standard of living that has been taken away from us as we speak for 50 years, and the fact that that high standard of living was achieved in spite of the Imperial Adventures of the country not because of it. Labor, regulation, and good leadership, relatively good, are what put capital on a leash and created a prosperous middle class that in turn bought consumer goods which in turn created more jobs and wealth in a virtuous cycle, one that has since reversed in globalization.
Ayyy! I'm expounding ovah here! Ohh!
You had somewhere you wanted to get to? Waddah want from me? I'm expounding!
I would add that the high standard of living being taken away for the last half century had nothing to do with imperialism, it triumphed despite imperialism, that standard of living was from Organized Labor, and from the New Deal and the Great War that allowed the government to put the bosses on their back foot, to make them pay progressively more taxes after obscene amounts, for taxes to be paid by corporations more than personal taxes. The top rate for income was 90% after they got a large amount at lower rates.
And the new deal put checks on business, it prevented the banks from systematically cheating everyone. Preventing them operating in more than 3 states, keeping them small, seperated commerical and investment banking, and made a writer of a security hold a percent of that until maturity, making sure they wrote good loans and didn't write bad ones, fob them on investors.
Preventing the rich from being super rich and becoming too powerful is one big deciding factor in standard of living. Labor, and the New Deal, is what led to high wages, in spite of the cold war, not because of it. And that cold war hurt us, it didn't help us, in every way you look at it.
I wish I didn't just read all of that to get to the end and you just brush off the argument completely.
Was that line a troll? After literally not looking at it at all, you say that? And I guess we're talking about the cold war, and not imperialism now?
Here's my question in response to all of that: Why did the US get the New Deal and not the Jakarta Method?
What do you mean, I looked at it and rejected the contention that the imperial Adventures of our ruling class has had any benefit for taxpayers and citizens. That in fact it has given Force and license to the ones that have taken away our prosperity and rights. I really do not see any counter argument you are making here for how Imperial Adventures help the working class.
Michael Scott declared it
Here's
my
question.
Why did the US get the New Deal
And not the Jakarta Method?
There were not sizable numbers of leftist to kill off is the answer you are looking for. If there had been millions of protesting leftist I am sure the US would have killed them off otherwise the cold war would have never happened.
So there were enough protesting leftists to rewrite the social contract but not enough to kill them off?
No, leftists had nothing to do with it
It was just fascist fucks, always was.
If you have a point to make, just make it.
God forbid I ask mister shower monologue to ponder a question he didn't ask himself
Do you have a point? Why do you need me to answer a question to make the point? I don't recall anything about whatever you mentioned there, the term, no idk, what's your point?
You're supposed to listen to me go on for four paragraphs but I'm not going to do a single google search in deference to what you have to say
I made points, you disagreed with them without making any counterpoints, and refused to finish a single refutation while shaming me for not researching you undefined question, and I'm the asshole?
Whatever man, I gave you my ear, you chose not to use it.
It’s more that Americans were spared the worst of the effects of imperialism exploitation because imperialism needs a stable base of operations. If conditions were as bad in the US as they are in other parts of the world there would be revolts and the whole system would collapse.
The Imperial Boomerang is coming back on the country now, what we support overseas gets adopted by our own lawmakers and done at home. No one should celebrate it, it's the same ones behind doing those things overseas doing it here, to gain more power to do the same things to those other countries with even less restraint, as much as malign forces would have us celebrate hurting people because their government is bad.
Meh, I am not seeing it. Unless you are talking about the War on Drugs which was used to destroy millions of minority and poor white families. You are about 40 years late on calling it.
Also in the last thirty years we have lost more Americans to gun violence than every American lost in every war combined.
If you think Ice killing hundreds or even thousand of people is the boomerang then I would like to point out that this narrative isn't very convincing.