this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2025
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Turns out "We need MORE fascism, NOW" is both vile and ineffective (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 day ago by PugJesus@lemmy.world to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Haven't heard nor seen an effective strategy from anyone in the position to resist or lead change. People are too comfortable.

I don't want everyone to suffer per-say, but it's really, really hard to look at this and think "Aannny day now, everyone's going to do something."

Nothing has been done, nothing is getting done. The isolated protests were passing fads with no momentum. Everyone in leftist spaces thinks we're somehow going to have a revolution without an inspiring leader, clearly-defined goals, or large-scale organization... and even if we pull that off we have to live next to the millions of people who voted for this and want this, and we have no plan for dealing with that even if we all got our way at once.

I cannot help but maintain the feeling that the only thing that will get everyone moving and working together at once is a lack of comforts. I don't think it has to be as dramatic as this stupid porg meme is making it out to be, but since nobody in large-scale, liberal, middle-class America is feeling the pain past increased prices and distracting news, the only thing that will get them moving will be a distinct shift in the comforts they have available.

I am open to alternatives, but I think a lot of the "nothing ever happens" crew is also secretly hoping the entire market crashes or the tariffs ruin America's workforce and logistics and we have a proper capital storming that leads to outcomes. Everyone is thinking it.

[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Guilty as charged! I don't live in the USA. But reading what I'm reading every day... I just can't help thinking that MAGA won't stop until they crash. I'm open to alternative ways of looking at it though.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's the issue. Crashing won't stop them. Infinite enabling of authoritarians does not lead to authoritarians suddenly losing all popularity and being overwhelmed by a tide of democratic sentiment. It leads to fucking North Korea. There is no level of suffering or oppression people are not willing to buckle under, given sufficient perceived strength of the oppressors.

For that matter, there is no level of suffering great enough to shake people of their convictions. The vast majority of people will return to their convictions as soon as they're able to. Inflicting suffering, or letting fascist regimes inflict suffering, will not 'cure' a population of it. Half of the German population in the 1950s still regarded Hitler as a good leader, even after taking Germany from the second most powerful country in Europe to the fifth most powerful in Berlin, and reducing the country to fucking rubble in service to one of the worst causes mankind has ever known.

Don't welcome a Vichy Regime under the delusion that it will begin the Resistance. Understand that the fall of the Third Republic means that the only route to defeat the fucking fascists becomes narrower, harder, and will lead to a less 'pure' political resolution if successful.

[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Infinite enabling of authoritarians

OK that's not what I meant at all though. Maybe I was too self-deprecating. Or maybe I saw more sarcasm in the meme than there is.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

What I meant is that there is no point at which giving ground to authoritarians makes them so nakedly brutal and vile that the population turns against them. My point is that "Things are bad now, but if they get worse, then things will REALLY crash and the population will THEN finally see!" is just not viable, no matter how bad it gets. Every inch given to authoritarians makes them stronger; it will not sap their popularity or lay the groundwork for a successful reaction against them.

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I am an accelerationist. I want to accelerate towards more violence against fascists.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You, specifically, or someone else?

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I have only punched a nazi once, but i wouldnt avoid doing so again, if the opportunity presented itself. Im afraid that will come to pass sooner rather than later sadly, considering the rise of fascism everywhere :(

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world -2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Do you think these confirmed nazis that were punched reevaluate their ideological belief set, or it further reinforces their beliefs?

To the bystander ("normie") and especially vulnerable outcast who witnesses it, what is your hope they'd take away from that? For at least here in America many on the left hold a high standard for free speech and a strong separation of words versus physical violence. My concern would then be that we're perceived as hypocrites if we can't reason them out of this belief set but are ourselves forced to proactive violence.

To me I view nazi beliefs as a mental illness no differently than drug addiction. And also a product of parental neglect, abuse, trauma, and poor education. Beating sense into them to me sounds ironically like a conservative methodology, as dangerous and violent as their beliefs are.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 2 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

The point of punching Nazis is not to convince the Nazi with violence, it's to shatter the delusion of Nazis that they can promise and advocate violence with impunity until they're strong enough to implement it, and prevent bystanders from thinking the same. Driving Nazis back under rocks and reassuring vulnerable groups that broader society isn't willing to play civility games up until they're marched into death camps are both laudable effects of punching Nazis.

That being said, punching Nazis is one of the less efficient means of activism, high risk and low reward. I wouldn't recommend anyone dedicate activist time and energy to specifically punching Nazis (if we're at the point where dedicating time to be violent towards Nazis is legitimately highly valuable, 'punching' is probably so mild as to be a waste of time and opportunity), but it's sometimes worthwhile when the opportunity arises organically.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

Part of the problem is they legitimately recruit off these videos. They consider themselves martyrs for the cause to expose the hypocritical nature of those who espouse Democratic principles and Free Speech and yet undermine them at expedience. Contrary to the other comment, this is not me defending nazis; rather, it's simply knowing my enemy. Believe me, I want nothing more than to see the mental disorder that is nazism, fascism, and the conveyor-belt of far-right radicalization to be promptly stopped.

I have not seen a sliver's evidence that preemptive violence towards nazis actually stops their ideology from spreading — especially in the era of the internet and cesspool havens they gather under.

There are groups who work to de-radicalize these people, and literally none of them espouse, "Yes, punching nazis deters widespread radicalization."

Life After Hate — started by a former neo-nazi.

Leaving Maga — Former maga pundit turned Harris campaigner.

The sooner we begin looking at Nazism as a mental disorder and cultism, the better we will be able to inoculate people from joining and maybe de-radicalizing some.

[–] Witchfire@lemmy.world 0 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

You don't need to defend Nazis dude

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world -1 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

Did I ever?

If that's what you took away from that, then I encourage one take a reading comprehension course.