this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2025
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me_irl
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Tell this idiot to read and look up the chemicals in his "vegan" food...
Last time I checked, beans, peas and lentils aren't filled with growth hormones and puss.
I think it's totally natural for humans to eat meat. But also definitely more moral to abstain from eating it.
Seeing what some vegetarians and vegans eat instead of meat makes me laugh. One half is exotic stuff flown in from the other side of the world at a vast expense of the environment, the other half is Ultra High Processed Food laced with chemicals most people cannot even pronounce...
If you aren't raising cows in your backyard, I have bad news for you...
The process of eating meat? Sure.
The way people in the modern world obtain meat? Nothing natural about that.
If I was made to hunt my game, or kill the animal I raised, I'd never eat meat.
I would. If I eat meat I am responsible for taking that animals life, whether or not it's me that performs the killing blow. At least I know if I do it, it will be as quick and painless as I am able to make it. In the case of hunting, I would take some comfort in knowing it lived free and not in a cramped cage in a factory farm or something. If I was able to raise my own animals, I would give them the best and happiest life I was able to give them, and also end their life as painlessly as I could manage when it was time for that.
I wouldn't at all enjoy the act of killing, but I feel like it shows at least a little respect for the life of the animal that I am willing to take the responsibility to do it myself, precisely because it is a hard thing to do. I would never have eaten meat if I wasn't wiling to do the killing myself.
I recently switched to a Pescetarian diet, partly so I can stop supporting factory style farming. I know it's an anthropocentric pov but Its easier for me to kill fish and other sea creatures than land critters, but I still try to be as humane as possible when doing it.
I will never eat anything in the Dolphin, Whale, or Octopus families, which is another anthropocentric thing, and I guess it made me a hypocrite because I did eat pork and they are intelligent too. I am trying to reduce the harm I do at least.
Killing a cow I raised would be the same as killing a dog I raised.
Just because it's "yummy" and "I feel like it"?
Seems pretty insane to me, but people be people'ing.
I don't think it would be the same thing at all. I wouldn't go out of my way to create an emotional bond with a critter I raised to be food. In fact im pretty sure I would intentionally not do that.
Im not saying that it might not accidentally happen, I am a softie and an animal lover. If it did I probably wouldn't be capable of eating it.
You seem to feel pretty strongly about this, don't you think its at least a little hypocritical to be ok with killing and eating an animal, as long as you personally aren't delivering the killing blow? You are every bit as responsible for the deaths of the animals you eat as the person at the slaughter house.
I have no issues with people refusing to kill an animal on ethical grounds (reducing the harm from factory farming was a big consideration for the change in my diet) but you aren't doing that.
It just seems like a weird stance to judge me for doing something you are also doing, but by proxy. If you hire someone to kill someone else, you would still get charged with murder. The same logic applies here.
Emotional bond or no, I don't have it me to walk up to a (random or raised) animal and slit its throat. Especially when it's raised by me.
If it was a matter of life or death - that's a different topic. Right now, there's no reason to eat animal meat, except for "yummy".
The meat industry has done a "marvelous" job of disconnecring "killing" with "consuming meat". No, I don't feel like I'm killing the animal, because I'm not doing it.
I'm eating meat because it's "yummy". But that wasn't what I said in the original comment. I said if I had to choose (which I currently don't have to do). And I said I couldn't kill an animal with my own hands, just because it's tasty, because I'm not a psycho.
Apparently, I don't have a issue when a psycho does it and delivers me the meat, of an animal I have never seen before.
I wish it wasn't this way, and I'm trying to reduce my meat consumption (and I have, by a lot). But we don't live in an ideal world.
Same with climate change. You know that people are already dying because of it. I'm nor directly killing the people, but they are dying because of it. And me being "comfortable" adds to climate change (even if it's a minute addition, just like eating a Big Mac is a minute part of the killed animal)
I feel the same, but I do think there's a threshold somewhere.
Insects. I don't want to eat those, but if I had to, my conscience wouldn't be the problem.
Fish. It's not my pet. I wouldn't worry too much about eating it. Breeding fish. Maybe not so easy, but fish will eat each other any chance they get, so why shouldn't I.
Chicken. They're not good pets. Fucking dinosaur would eat me if it could. I don't know if I could have a pet-like relationship to a chicken. Maybe other birds are different. I'd respect a crow or eagle enough not to hunt it.
Then there's mammals. I agree that most of them are like dogs. I don't want to breed or hunt pigs, cows, deer or cats. But how about rats and mice? They are a real nuisance and breed like crazy. It wouldn't matter much to anyone if there's a few more or less, and I surely wouldn't pet them in the wild. However, rabbits and hares. They're just too cute. No eating.
So, there it is. Despite loving every living being, I could still eat some mammals, some birds and anything else in the animal kingdom without remorse.
I agree. While I feel like I couldn't kill a mouse/rat with my hands and watch it die, but I think I could make myself set a trap that kills the animal instantly out of my sight.
Very interesting point you've made!
natural has two different meanings.
one is the opposite of artificial.
the other is the opposite of supernatural.
everything humans do, tautologically, is artificial.
so unless you mean you think the modem meat industry employs ghosts or magic spells, it is very much "natural"
Nice, we got an "acktchually" over here.
If you want to be a part of the discussion, read and use the context.
seems like you don't want to accept the truth
Don't care wht "seems" to you.
there is no context that could change the truth of what I said
Yes, you've got the biggest, best truths. A lotta people tell you that your truths are the greatest of all times.
Okay, so you're saying I can keep calling y'all carnists and bloodmouths and you won't get offended?
So, what's the problem?
I never understood "bloodmouth". Like, who is out here eating animals while they still have blood in them? The butchering process includes bleeding the animal out; there ain't no blood when it gets to the table.
Also, I think its less about the name that is being used, and the fact that you're intent is shame someone using the name. Name calling is what children do, and acting like a child doesn't often earn respect. If the vegan movement wanted to ever get global traction, they'd have to actually respect the people they are trying to convert.
Same problem with a lot of Christians trying to convert people. A lot of Christians just do not have respect for secular people, and try to shame them into converting. Makes a bad rap for Christians and Vegans both :/
Same problem with a lot of leftists too.
Why won't these racist, inbred, homophobic, idiot, sexist, transphobic, breeders, backwoods hicks brainwashed by Fox News, living in horrible flyover states that don't matter and have no redeeming values, these fucking fascist bootlickers, delusional people believing in a fantasy magic sky daddy, these fucking Nazis just realize that we know what's best for them and let us, the people who know what's right, make all the decisions? Better yet, they should all just die and get out of the way. When we get into power you know we'll need to round them up and re-educate them for their own good (note: I've actually seen this bit suggested on lemmy unironically).
So why won't they join us working towards a better world?
It's a problem with a lot of groups of people, really.
It's to remind you of the blood. Yes, the process of slaughter and butchery and processing removes it (most of it) but that allows you to pretend that you aren't a killer. We remind you of the blood so that you don't get to pretend that beef grows on store shelves.
But what really bothers me about the industry is slaughterhouses. People who work in slaughterhouses suffer from drastically higher rates of depression, anxiety, suicidality, alcoholism, criminality, etc etc. than the rest of the population. The blood in your mouth isn't actually the blood of chickens and cows and pigs, it's the blood of workers who die for you to have your treats.
But, also, it's just for fun. I don't believe you can convince anyone of anything on the internet, the communication here is far too alienated and abstracted. There's literally nothing anyone can ever say in a comments section to convince meat eaters to stop eating meat, it's actually kind of absurd to even pretend there was a chance I could convince you. It has to either be a personal connection or you need to come to this conclusion on your own by watching documentaries and shit.
Also also veganism can never gain global traction without being organized. As long as it's just individual people choosing not to eat animal products and individual people choosing to troll carnists on the internet it won't ever actually matter. Again, it's just for fun.
Hey as someone who works in a slaughterhouse, my depression and anxiety existed long before I started working here. If anything it has gotten better since I got the better pay, don't have to deal with the public, and started seeing a therapist.
As someone who tries to eat less meat in general because climate change and cows are basically giant grass eating slightly smellier dogs, I cannot take anyone who unironically uses "carnist" and "bloodmouth" seriously from that point on.
The more names you use to describe "person who eats meat" that you think are insulting and derogatory, the more people roll their eyes and move on with their planned meal.
Carnist is just the word for people who eat meat, it's not vegans' fault you decided it's an insult. Suggest a non insulting word.
It's a term vegans developed and marketed to label their out group.
Whenever anyone labels an out group, they are doing so to feel superior. Considering people already felt vegans have an heir of superiority, the term acts to reinforce this notion.
Vegans that use the term are not smart people. They are displaying an inability to apply logic and reasoning to move their cause forward. Indicating they did not use logic and reasoning to make their decision but rather emotions. Emotions which they then attempt to deploy in an effort to manipulate others. They do not understand that not everyone is as easily emotionally manipulated.
They will of course backfill their choice with dogma from the movement. But they do not lead with that dogma because it is not how they became one.
Why didn't carnists come up with their own term for themselves? Vegans made up a name for themselves. If carnists come up with a term for carnists and market it, vegans will probably use it.
"nonvegan" is common parlance
That's not actually an identifier, it's just the negation of one. It's reductive and incorrect. It would be like if we called straight people nongay or atheists nonchristian. Of course, all three erase the grey area in between: vegetarians, bisexuals/asexuals, and any other religion, respectively.
Can't you think of a word to describe yourself? What is the ideology of carnists in your own words? What unites you, sets you apart from others, and sounds snappy? We'll just have to call you carnists until you fix your branding problem.
What is the ideology of carnists
there is no ideology. it's is vegans who have the ideology
Okay, well that opens up a whole new area of words to describe carnists. You could call yourselves centrists, or moderates, or apoliticals, or nihilists. All good words to describe having no ideology other than conforming to society's norms.
nonvegan is already common parlance. most people are not nihilists.
When it comes to animals, they are. Like you said, they have no ideology, no convictions. A communist like drag believes in workers rights. Animals are being forced to work for capitalists, and they deserve rights. But you don't. When it comes to animals, you're not a communist, progressive, or anything. You're just complicit with all of capitalism's exploitation. Just a fascist collaborator, going along with a system in which the human race is supreme and all other races exist to be exploited and killed.
treating animals like animals is good, actually.
Treating one particular animal the way the other animals are treated was the whole thing wrong with the holocaust.
no, the problem is treating people like animals.
Humans are a species of animal. You just think the human race is a master race.