this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2026
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[–] panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 hour ago (2 children)

Prices are based on what the market will pay, not the cost of materials.

Petro Can has like 12000 gas stations, and the other companies have similar numbers. We've basically given all the market to a few companies.

The truth is there's no gas price algorithm. There are some data inputs and local gas stations compete based on their nearby competition prices, but broadly there's a group of men in a room who set the prices to whatever they want.

When costs go up, they immediately increase prices. When costs go down, they wait and see what their competitors do.

So you can see why a few companies owning all the gas stations creates inelastic sticky prices that don't go down for weeks. If you take away the gas tax, well, are Shell and Crappy Tire dropping prices? Not yet, so we won't either. Easy decision.

Gas companies used to pay to have people drive around and report gas prices from their competitors back to corporate. Now they pay gas buddy for bulk API access to the numbers users report to Gas Buddy in the app for free.

I am definitely not recommending you do this, but if many people were to constantly report lower gas prices at gas stations in the app, that would feed into the sole data they use to set their prices and lower gas prices in the area.

If in theory Gas Buddy data became unreliable for some reason it would take a long time for these companies to decide to spend money and start hiring gas price checkers again.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 45 minutes ago

You are describing a natural monopoly and why private ownership of it sucks. That is the whole point.

Gas stations are a natural monopoly. You cannot have twenty competing pipelines running to the same neighborhood. You cannot have fifteen different refinery complexes in every city. The infrastructure is too expensive and too duplicative. So what happens is a handful of companies end up owning everything and they just coordinate as a cartel instead of competing.

PetroCanada used to be a crown corporation. It existed precisely because we recognized that fuel distribution is too important to leave to private profit extraction. It kept prices honest because there was a public option that could undercut the private cartels. Then we privatized it and pretended the market would fix everything. Surprise surprise it did not.

The core problem is not algorithms or Gas Buddy or tax holidays. The core problem is that we allowed a natural monopoly to operate as a for profit business. When one company owns twelve thousand gas stations and the other three companies own similar numbers there is no competition. Market based pricing really means that a group of executives in a boardroom decide what number makes them the most money and then they all charge that number.

This is exactly why socialists argue for public ownership of critical infrastructure. Fuel distribution is a natural monopoly. Either the state owns it and sets prices at cost plus a reasonable margin or a cartel owns it and extracts every cent they can get away with. There is no third option where competition magically appears.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 59 minutes ago* (last edited 58 minutes ago)

Prices are based on what the market will pay, not the cost of materials.

I heard a take on this, which suggests price is more a measure of the value of labor rather than the cost of materials. Under more historical economic models, you were limited by your immediate regional supply of a good or service. And we would talk about shortages, droughts, and famines when the local supply was exhausted. The local labor force couldn't produce more commodities with the tools/conditions at hand, so they exhausted them.

Under a more modern market system, we no longer talk about "running out" of a given commodity. Instead, we talk about the price going beyond what we have available to pay. You'll walk into the grocery store and see a $10 banana. And it'll sit on the shelf till it rots, because nobody has $10 to spend on a banana. But it's only there because nobody can pay that price. The fact that there's no second banana in the stock room is obscured by the astronomically high price on display.

However, you do eventually get to the point where people need the commodity more than they need the currency. That is, in effect, the cause of inflation. And then the banana gets sold, there's no second banana, and we reveal the real cost of materials in their absence. There's no supply chain bringing in more bananas because we've experienced a structural failure in the economy. The cost of maintaining infrastructure eclipsed what the owners/administrators were willing to front. We obscured it with a price signal until the bitter end.

And the empty shelves ultimately reveal what national administrators believe to be the value of the local population. It is not a question of commodity markets any longer, but of labor markets. You (the local public) aren't worth sending new supplies to, because we (the capitalist economic administrators) no longer consider you productive laborers.

[–] TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.ca 3 points 46 minutes ago

It did drop here a little bit. From around $2.20/L down to $2.10/L

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 5 points 1 hour ago (2 children)

The suggestion here is that the prices rose because the tax was lifted? That seems pretty easily refuted by looking at international news.

[–] P1k1e@lemmy.world 8 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

No I'm pretty sure it's just saying the tax cut didn't do anything at all. Oils still going up, but the cut made zero difference

I mean, it's still 10 cents per litre less than it would have been had the tax not been lifted...unless the implication is that the price wouldn't have gone up without the tax reduction (which is pretty obviously not true).

I don't like the tax being lifted - I think it's largely populist nonsense - but it's at least a little dishonest to say there's no difference at all.

[–] cybermass@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I think that's what the original post was implying but yeah it's two fold.

  1. Tax cut won't lower prices, it will just increase company profit margins
  2. Prices went up because of Iran war

Only way to reduce prices is to reduce demand. Small modular nuclear reactors are the way and we have companies in Canada working on them yet I don't hear of any government help in those projects.

[–] Upperhand@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

How is a small nuclear reactor going to run cars? This is coming from an ev driver. How about investing in our own oil industry, because, let's be honest, it's not going anywhere anytime soon. Instead we send our oil to be refined elsewhere then buying it back at high rates and hurt us, just do it in our own country and sell it abroad, especially since we have the 4th largest oil reserves on the planet. Lowering fuel costs lower costs of a lot of things as long as we actually hold companies responsible. And before you say everyone just get evs, they are expensive and not a lot can get one.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 43 minutes ago (1 children)

What we should actually be doing is nationalizing our oil industry, and then using the money it produces to fund a transition towards clean energy. Of course, that's never going to happen under neoliberalism.

[–] Upperhand@lemmy.world 1 points 24 minutes ago (1 children)

Sadly, that won't happen with anyone. People are corruptible. It would have to be a system that can't be used for financial gain for any one individual or group. But I agree with you nonetheless. The worst part is that it wouldn't be all that hard, but the ones in charge will not relinquish for our betterment.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 18 minutes ago

I mean look at China successfully transitioning towards clean energy using state owned enterprise. These things are certainly possible to do. The problem is that our political system creates all the wrong incentives.