this post was submitted on 11 May 2026
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    foss nerds stop being condescending to those who don't know the same things you do challenge (impossible) (files.catbox.moe)
    submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
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    alt textAn edit of xkcd 2501, "Average Familiarity":
    [Ponytail and Cueball are talking. Ponytail has her hand raised, palm up, towards Cueball.]
    Ponytail: Open-source alternatives are second nature to us foss nerds, so it's easy to forget that the average person probably only knows Linux and one or two degoogled Android ROMs.
    Cueball: And Firefox, of course.
    Ponytail: Of course.

    [Caption below the panel]
    Even when they're trying to compensate for it, experts in anything wildly overestimate the average person's familiarity with their field.

    partly inspired by the replies to this post but i see this kind of thing all the time (shoutout to the person who once genuinely asked "who still uses google these days?")

    made with this neat tool

    top 50 comments
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    [–] Jaimesmith@lemmy.world 2 points 49 minutes ago

    The β€œwho still uses Google?” crowd forgets most people just want their computer to work, not become a weekend side quest.

    [–] libre_warrior@lemmy.ml 2 points 54 minutes ago

    [–] ferrule@sh.itjust.works 38 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (9 children)

    The other day my wife was talking about her new job and having to take notes. For the past 30 years I've been keeping notes in text, then markdown in vim, starting with personal scripts, then vimwiki. A coworker showed me Obsidian, which while not FLOSS, does use an open standard for all its files. It pretty much does what my setup does.

    Then it dawned on me that my wife and other non-techies just use whatever their computer has on it by default (i.e. OneNote). She never thought to go out and look for better productivity software. The idea that there is tons of better apps out there doesn't register. She has a phone, knows about the app store and gets tons of stuff there but as for her desktop or laptop the idea of apps outside of MS Office and the video games she plays is lost on her.

    [–] sunstoned@lemmus.org 5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

    I feel obligated to mention Logseq here. It's similar to obsidian, but FLOSS (AGPL-v3).

    [–] nek0d3r@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 39 minutes ago

    I found Logseq to be pretty confusing honestly. I ended up settling on Trilium.

    [–] BigTwerp@feddit.uk 10 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

    All my work computers are provided by the companies I work for and per their rules I can only take and store notes using their approved software and on their servers which basically means I work on a locked down Microsoft ecosystem. Access to third party productivity software is simply not possible outside of certain role specific specialist software.

    I would guess literally millions of employees have a similar setup so it's not that we are tech illiterate per say, but more accurately in the corporate world this option doesn't exist so there is no point trying.

    Outside work my productivity tools consist of a Moleskine notebook with tasteful check paper.

    [–] ferrule@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 hours ago

    I have worked at places like that. The issue is real. But I have also asked for apps to be audited to get on the approved list. Again not always possible.

    But I still think the general issue stands. There are a lot of people unaware of software. I even know developers who have never learned their tools and built muscle memory but instead just used whatever came with their computer because they aren't out there looking.

    [–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 5 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

    Honestly OneNote is pretty good for the people who like it though. I personally really can't stand rich text editing, I really need a raw view. If I didn't have those reservations I'd probably like OneNote more.

    [–] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 hours ago

    If I could use markdown with onenote I'd use it way more.

    [–] rumba@lemmy.zip 16 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

    They just want to get the job done. The fact that they considered a note-taking app at all isn't universally normal. To this day my wife sends me messages in signal as a post-it to remember things, she could have just sent it to herself, but she used to do the same in sms and just applied that forward after I convinced her security was a good step.

    We want the best, the nicest, the most useful thing. We apply the same rigor most non-technies use when choosing a car.

    They want to fill a need that, at worst, bothers them a little.

    [–] ferrule@sh.itjust.works 6 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

    My wife did the same on signal. When I showed her the "Note to self" feature she was amazed an. started using it. She use to get annoyed that we would text and her note would get lost but now it doesn't.

    It isn't about finding the best, it is about finding better than the worst. My wife needs the features Obsidian has, she says she wished her notes would visually link together. What she doesn't know is that such apps exist.

    She wishes she could sync files between her phone and computer and not have to go to a website to get them. syncthing does that.

    [–] rumba@lemmy.zip 3 points 5 hours ago

    syncthing + obsidian is a rockstar.

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    [–] imetators@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

    Judging by how huge share of browser usage Firefox has, I am pretty sure vast majority of normies know nothing about Firefox

    [–] arcine@jlai.lu 9 points 8 hours ago (6 children)

    Okay but litterally everyone knows about Firefox.

    I'm willing to concede some people don't know about Linux. But I've never met anyone who didn't know about Firefox.

    [–] PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca 6 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

    The vast majority of people I work with in my organization have absolutely no idea what Firefox is or that there are other browsers. You, me, and everyone here is living in a bubble.

    [–] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

    Not too long ago, in the internet explorer era, Firefox had a huge market share. Something like 30%. Even if they didn't use it themselves, they probably knew someone that did.

    They may not remember it, but at some point they knew.

    They may say they don't know firefox, but if you ask them "do you remember there were some people that didn't use internet explorer before chrome?" They'll probably remember, even if they don't remember the name.

    [–] Decq@lemmy.world 11 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

    Hah no they don't. My partner doesn't even really know what a browser is, or where the distinction between phone/pc and 'the internet' lies. Sure she might have heard of the word 'firefox' but no way she can explain what it is or does.

    [–] adarza@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

    that's the true 'average' person. they don't know. they don't understand. they don't even want to know. they just use this magic thing that shows stuff from the internet. they don't even know what a bookmark is, they just 'google' for everything. even google, ffs.

    [–] MutilationWave@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 hour ago

    Years ago I watched a friend type google.com into the search/address bar of chrome, click the link, then begin to search. Painful.

    [–] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 5 hours ago

    "Why does your google look like that"

    [–] lambipapp@lemmy.world 14 points 7 hours ago

    Everyone uses VLC still right? ... Right?

    [–] NightmareQueenJune@lemmy.world 15 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

    No. People who are 30+ maybe. But there are tons of people in GenZ (my generation) and Alpha that don't even know what folders or symlinks are. And Firefox is a nieche browser since 10 years or so.

    [–] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

    Putting folders and symlinks in the same category is wild. Most people I know (basically every non-elderly non-toddler person) knows what a folder is. Yet only some of the programmers I know know what a symlink is. Not even a chance for non-programers.

    At most they'll know what a shortcut is. Which is not the same as a symlink.

    [–] EddoWagt@feddit.nl 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

    I guess I'm a programmer now

    [–] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 1 points 35 minutes ago

    I don't know you. My comment doesn't apply to you, sorry.

    Knowing what a symlink is doesn't make you a programmer. It's just that I don't know any non-programmer that knows what it is.

    [–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

    I didn't know that symbolic links were a thing until like 2 years into using Linux daily. I didn't know there was a difference between symlinks and shortcuts until I saw this comment!

    To save others a trip to Wikipedia, both a symlink and a shortcut store a path to another file or directory. The biggest difference is that symlinks are resolved by your file system, whereas shortcuts are resolved by whatever program accesses them. So if your software doesn't know what a symlink is, that doesn't matter. It tries to access the symlink, and your file system says "oh hey they want that jpeg" and serves them that jpeg. Whereas if your software doesn't know what a shortcut is, it'll try to access the shortcut and be like "wtf this is just a file path, I was expecting a jpeg"

    They can also store relative file paths, while shortcuts can only store absolute filepaths. So if your symlink references a file that's in the same directory, you can move that directory and the symlink still works. Can't do that with a shortcut.

    [–] pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 8 hours ago

    I wouldn't be surprised if gen alpha hasn't heard if it because schools primarily use Chromebooks and the only browser is chrome

    [–] mabeledo@lemmy.world 8 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

    Happens all the time. Also, nerds tend to overestimate the amount of resources, like time or money, someone would put on something they care about.

    Right here in Lemmy I had this interaction where someone argued that if one were to lose their photos because Google had an oopsie, it’s kind of their fault because they didn’t have a backup plan.

    [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 11 points 10 hours ago (3 children)

    I have had a comm literally dogpile me claiming linux wasn't designed for multi sessions or to run as a terminal server.

    My respect for lemmy foss forums is in the fucking toilet.

    [–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

    Wait, who was making that claim?

    [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 8 hours ago

    My experience with the Linux communities here has been the opposite. Very welcoming, and very helpful.

    [–] AllHailTheSheep@sh.itjust.works 9 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (2 children)

    there's a lot of people that hopped on the Linux train in the past few years. which is great, truly. but many of them don't understand where it came from or what it was originally designed to solve. particularly on lemmy, people are pretty up in arms about their opinions of Linux all the time, so I would bet whichever comm was doing that is mainly the new heads. again, love that it's getting mainstream recognition but I wish the combative attitude was at least tabled until they actually understand it.

    the recent debate of systemd in here kind of drove home that a lot of people just parrot points without having their own thought out opinions.

    [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 6 points 9 hours ago

    Oh let's be honest, elitism has always been baked into linux a bit. Remember the old joke about how to get help on a linux comm? Ask and get told to RTFM even if you detail a complex issue that demonstrates you have in fact read tf m. Say "linux sucks because you can't do X or Y like you can in windows" and they fall over themselves.....

    But yeah, the new batch of users are just...you want to gently grab them by the face and say "you're not fucking nero hacking the matrix because a command line interface doesn't make you shit your pants any more my dude. Stop acting like it."

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