"I drank what?" - Socrates
RIP Val Kilmer/Chris Knight
this post was submitted on 24 May 2026
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once again I have to remind everyone that his trial wasn't for some BS like being annoying. but because he was antidemocratic, and his students did an foreign led coup, ended democracy killed 10% of Athens, and ran away 8 month later.
He was held responsible and never denounced them. He likely wasn't as innocent as we think he was.
Just being pedantic, the linked article says that only one of the thirty was a student of Socrates, "only" 5% of Athens was killed, and Plato recounts that Socrates claims to have disobeyed their orders, risking his life (if he says so himself lol). Doesn't disprove your point whatsoever, I just like the facts str8
You know who else liked the facts straight? Diogenes. Which is why when Plato said that man was defined as "a featherless biped" Diogenes defeathered a chicken and carried it up to Plato screaming, "Behold! I have brought you a man!"
Just wanted to add that to this comment thread because I love that story.
Classic Diogenes.
Well, it was classic era
Not to be pedantic, but using Plato as a source for Socrates's innocence is like asking a Neonazi if Hitler was bad. He was his student, and Plato adored Socrates.
Non platonic contemporaries, like Aristophanes portrayed Socrates as a grifter.
"It's like, who died and left Aristotle in charge of ethics?"
". . . Plato!"
Honestly, this Socrates thing is my tinfoil hat conspiracy.
The fact that he is remembered as an abstract philosopher rather than a political one is some bullshit.
it's like in 2400 years from now kids will be learning about how Hitler though the consciousness work with absolutely no mention of his antidemocratic ideas. (this example is likely an exaggeration, but the point remains).
And one reason why he is the main source of western philosophy is because Plato practically invented him. Plato was also a staunch antidemocrat, and so was his student Aristotle.
And when massive non democratic empire rose in the region (Alexander the great), it pushed Aristotle as the primary school of thought of the new empire.
Then after a while all the politics were sanitized out of them and they are remembered for things like their ethics or world views detached of politics.
These were extremely political actors. whos policies are definitely way outside our current zeitgeist. but we still hold on to them.
Like Jordan Peterson is a "Philosopher" propping up the alt right. Socrates-Plato-Aristotle were propping up the tyrants at the time.
If someone asks me how radicalized I am, I can point at this.
Thank you, this was eye opening for me. For some reason in my philosophy classes Aristotle's popularity was somewhat contextualized but Socrates and Plato's views were taken at face value, as if their anti democratic views are different than today's just because someone expressed them thousands of years ago.
Also makes me wonder if the framing of Socrates as the "every man's philosopher" in opposition to the establishment philosophers who only cared about philosophy for their job is similarly biased
Erastophanes "The clouds" is a play mocking Socrates, and it portrayed him as a complete grifter and connman. although if we consider that Socrates was the only honest one in a corrupt system, then said critique isn't a critique but evidence that "grifters" didn't like him and where perhaps projecting. But I do think his staunch antidemocratic views are red flags that shouldn't be brushed under the rug, especially since he didn't have any remorse about the coup in his trial.
But if we had someone today, calling all mainstream education a scam and supporting antidemocratic dictators... nevermind we do have those today. Some are even failed boxers like Plato was.
My biggest red flag is that during school, and highschool, and practically every philosophy video/essay about Socrates, the consequences of his antidemocratic rethoric is/was never even mentioned.
Every highschooler will quote "I only know I only noting" or "Plato's cave" but no one has even heard of the 30 tyrants.
Mm thanks for reminding me I was in the middle of a rewatch.
Thank you for the details, I never knew that. Plato was himself not in a good place though, in sicily he pissed off the ruler and got sold into slavery, one of the fans of his writing bought him and allowed him to continue not being a slave, as I understand it.
Wasn't the biggest complaint about him that he wouldn't accept an answer without asking why afterwards?
He was charged with "making the weaker argument the stronger"
Turning Point Athens
“You say I’m wrong. Why?”
Asking why for everything will do that lol
Why?
Beacuase
🐝🐦⬛
Apparently my nephew is Socrates reincarnated.
Ah yes, condemned by public school teachers
it was that his students conducted a foreign led coup that killed 10% of Athens in 8 months. Socrates never denounced them. even during the trial.
(google 30 tyrants)
wasn't plato known for beating people up if they disagreed?
If true that makes Diogenes even more based for bringing him a plucked chicken and going ‘you think this is a man you dumbfuck?’
E: actually can’t remember if that was Plato or Socrates
I don't know, but “plato”, meaning broad (shouldered, I suppose), was his wrestling name, so maybe.
Still couldn't dodge that chicken, though.
the philosopher know as "big boi"
How so, I never heard him referred to as big boi?
Broad › big boy. It's not a particularly incorrect translation, I suppose.
I may be slow, broad? Big boi? I don't get it.
A man who is said to have broad shoulders is someone with a large, broad frame. Big boi refers to a male that is large
Was he? Do you have a source I would love to read it. He himself fell out with the rulers of whatever city state he lived in in sicily, syracuse or whatever, and was sold into slavery, one of the fans of his writing, I think in Greece proper area but not sure, bought him, and freed him.