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this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2025
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politics
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The Heritage Foundation is a cancer. It has to be irradiated, then cut out.
I think the biggest problem American politics has is only going to be fixed my overturning Citizens United
Baseball bats?
That was my guess too!
You know what really has to happen. Just nobody has the guts to do it.
Infrastructure sabotage?
It will take more than that. There is a lot of rot.
oh 10 or 15 ought to do it. The rest are cowards and will have always been agaisnt maga.
But they'll then join up with the new MAGA when that springs up in about a decade. Unless something is done about the core issues propping up MAGA, they'll just keep coming. [Redacted]ing MAGAt leaders is, while not something I'd object to, not enough to really fix anything.
I mean... It's a testable hypothesis. 🤷♂️
I'm down for some science!
The only way to defeat us is if the Trump administration and the movement that undergirds it manages to divide us. We can’t let that happen. To win as a majority coalition, we must always invite everybody who believes in civil liberties and human rights.
Agreed. The purity testing and splintering into to niche issues is what always screws the left.
If people could just focus and align on some core root cause issues, like getting corrupt money out of politics, the message would be stronger.
All well and good, but what happens when someone comes to the meeting and says "we should end corruption and remove Trump, but I don't like DEI policies."
I'm guessing that will suddenly be added to the "root" cause and we're right back into splintering and purity spirals again.
I'm guessing that will suddenly be added to the "root" cause
Hopefully yes, because that's exactly what it is. You can't fight fascism with fascism lite.
If everything is "root" then nothing is.
You... you think racism and xenophobia aren't a root cause of this? If so, you should read a history book. Start from Nixon.
And here we go, a disagreement over policy balloons instantly into "racism and xenophobia" and an ally gets kicked out of the meeting because everything is black or white and no compromise is possible.
I find DEI policies to be a complicated topic, personally. I don't oppose the basic idea and motive behind them, but I think they've been implemented poorly and often turn into discrimination in their own right. Am I now classed as "Trump supporter" in your eyes? I've been called a Trump supporter because I don't like the recent Star Wars movies, so I'm sure a lot of people would indeed lump me in with him on that basis. And thus is proven the basic point about how Trump's opponents are destroying themselves without Trump's supporters having to lift a finger.
And here we go, a disagreement over policy balloons instantly into "racism and xenophobia"
Oh, so you're saying you personally don't like DEI policies. In that case I'm not necessarily calling you racist and xenophobic, but your seeming willingness to accept the results of past racism and xenophobia is definitely concerning. If I was running the meeting you wouldn't get kicked out, but your "can we not include DEI in our platform" would be met with an uncompromising "no." Before I explain why, do you understand the concepts of systemic racism and generational wealth?
but I think they've been implemented poorly and often turn into discrimination in their own right.
You need such "discrimination" to undo the results of past discrimination. For example, did you know that despite being only ~0.7% of the population, Native Americans make up about 24% of the poverty population of the US? Is this not injustice? How do you rectify it without affirmative action (aka DEI)?
You're really, really intent on driving my point home here, aren't you?
I oppose Trump. I think he's the worst president the US has ever had and he needs to be stopped. But I expressed an unrelated view that is mildly in opposition to yours, and now that's the only thing you can think about. You're focusing entirely on attacking me on this issue.
Have you forgotten that this is about Trump, and about how the only way to defeat him is to get over these sorts of divisions and diversions?
Have you forgotten that this is about Trump,
To you this is about Trump. To others it's about the injustice they have suffered their whole lives that got worse under Trump but did not originate with him. Being able to laser-focus on Trump is a privilege; it assumes that the politically relevant parts of your experience before Trump were if not good then at least tolerable. This is not the case for a massive chunk of the population. I mean, hell, for example ICE kidnappings are nothing new; Trump is just performatively cruel about them. You can't take a stand against some injustice and expect the people experiencing the chunk you're letting go to help you. As a wise man once said:
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
Yes, we get it, you don't want any allies in your fight against Trump that aren't perfectly aligned with every part of your fight against Trump. You don't need to keep on driving it home now, you've amply demonstrated why Democrats just can't seem to get it together to oppose him.
The Democrats? Seriously? These Democrats? Sigh.
Yes, the party that is literally the only party that can possibly remove Trump due to America's two-party system. That party.
You don't support them removing Trump? Then you're fine with Trump. That's the reality of the situation, and your insistence that only some magical fairyland third party that happens to align perfectly with your ideals must be allowed to do it is - as I have repeatedly said - exactly the problem that this thread is about.
You really can stop illustrating it now, we all get it.
I honestly don't think dei did shit one way or another and was all just a show. That being said I agree. Lets all get behind the constitution including all the bill of rights and argue about the other things once we have enough rights to do so in a civilized manner.
"We need to get my rights now. Your rights can come after we can argue about them in a civilized manner." Setting aside the moral duplicity of this, it's just not how you build a coalition. For them to fight for your rights, you need to fight for theirs with equal commitment.
So seperation of powers, the bill of rights including speech, assembly, due process, etc. Those are just rights for one person to you? The point is if we can't express views and assemble or get a day in court then everything else is in the toilet. You need to get a clue.
Those are just rights for one person to you?
These are rights for people who are economically well-off enough to exercise them. You don't, in fact, have the right to due process if you can't afford to miss work to exercise that right, and you don't have the right to speech if your three jobs don't leave you enough time to exercise that right. And you don't have any of these rights if you're being enslaved (and yes, it is slavery) by a for-profit prison. Constitutional political rights on their own are woefully insufficient to address the problems of minorities in America, and as they have repeatedly experienced, "later" more often than not is a synonym for "never." Point being: If you have no answer for systemic discrimination in your program, then yes you're not defending the rights of minorities experiencing that discrimination. The right of a black person to not be killed by the police is as or more important than your right to complain about the government.
This is a ridiculous stretch. This is exactly the path towards finding out what a real lack of rights are. This is the same all or nothing fallacious reasoning I see all the time online. I mean look what you said "If you have no answer for systemic discrimination in your program" now name a program that exists that 100% definitely has nothing that could be called systemic discrimination.
This is exactly the path towards finding out what a real lack of rights are.
Because the current and ongoing abuses of US minorities aren't real, right? You're really outing yourself here.
now name a program that exists that 100% definitely has nothing that could be called systemic discrimination.
There it is, folks, the all or nothing fallacious reasoning.
This comment chain is just chef's kiss
We could have done that last November, but some people decided it was better to single-issue abstain / protest vote / spread FUD / otherwise get in the way. Yes, I'm still salty about that.
I’m a salt mine over this. And now that they have full power, because fucking snowflakes couldn’t even bother to vote on the local and state level, they will not give up that power. People are dying, poor families with disabled children are losing healthcare, trans people are under federal attack, science and education is being gutted, and on and on, because of political edge lords.
There won’t be another chance. Vote next time or don’t, it won’t matter because fascists aren’t going to just say ‘welp, I guess I’ve been voted out now’. Like we were saying, 2024 was the last free election if they won. But they couldn’t be bothered.
Add some potatoes to me, I’m done.
I’m a salt mine over this.
I like that expression.
People are dying, poor families with disabled children are losing healthcare, trans people are under federal attack, science and education is being gutted, and on and on
According to the people we're both salty at, that's apparently an acceptable price to pay to "teach the Dems a lesson". (That was one of the most common reasons they'd give last year, and yep, I'm still salty about that too).
But at least they saved Palestine ¯_(ツ)_/¯
And the lesson the DNC learned was "try harder to appeal to fascists"
You know, like we said they would because that's been their reaction each time they've lost over the last forty years
As you should be. Here we are.
People didn't learn from the "Bernie Bros" who told people not to vote for Clinton in 2016.
Two things I always point out.
Frederick Douglas worked for Lincoln in 1860, despite the fact that Lincoln was not an abolition candidate. At best he was willing to consider it. Douglas could have backed a full on abolitionsit, but he decided it was better to win with a poor candidate than to lose with a perfect one.
Second, MLK had a gay second in command. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rustin]
Rustin and King knew that 1960s America wasn't ready for a gay rights movement, so they kept Rustin in the background.
Please stop repeating this myth. 80% of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton in 2016. This was up to 10% higher than the percentage of Clinton supporters who voted for Barack Obama in 2008.
Exactly.
Hillary lost because she was an unpopular candidate who represented The Establishment™ against an anti-establishment buffoon and then proceeded to botch her campaign, fucking around in Michigan (and then blowing the campaign.)
things like telling the SEIU not to focus on Michigan to "fool" trump into competing in Iowa.
Rustin and King knew that 1960s America wasn’t ready for a gay rights movement, so they kept Rustin in the background.
Though it is worth pointing out MLK's movement continued to expand to other groups, was more of a pro-socialist push near the end and probably would have kept going, had he not gotten shot.
You can do whatever speculation you want, it doesn't change the fact that King knew what was possible and what wasn't.
I've seen people quote "Letter From the Birmingham Jail" over and over when they want to push people to action. They ignore the fact that King was a savvy politician who knew how to get the best results.
Left unity doesn't include right wingers who are willing to throw away and entire election because they won't stop supporting Israel. If you wanna win an election, try actually appealing to the left instead of obstinately moving farther and farther right along with the party you unconditionally support
I voted for Kamala btw, so don't bother trying that angle. And I will never, for any reason, support newsom and his anti trans, anti homeless, fascist platforming ass. If you're already supporting him, you're exactly why Kamala lost, and why he'll lose in 2028
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With a baseball bat?
I was going to say rusty rebar
Well if he gets tetanus, he'd finally have to shut the fuck up.
I was thinking a sock full of old batteries might be cheaper if you buy in bulk.
With clubs, in a large group, Caesar-style, so nobody knows which of us did it?
The only way to defeat us is if the Trump administration and the movement that undergirds it manages to divide us. We can’t let that happen. To win as a majority coalition, we must always invite everybody who believes in civil liberties and human rights.
Sooooo we're defeated? 1/3 of the population voted for this and is actively cheering it on, 1/3 don't give enough of a shit to take action for whatever reason, and the last 1/3 are the target of the first 1/3.
How the fuck are we supposed to band together and "invite everybody that believes in civil liberties and human rights" when half of the country is either championing or passively allowing the stripping away of those rights? This would require the right wing to fundamentally shift their views on immigrants and gay people, which they obviously have no interest in doing.
All that was needed to defeat Hitler was to make the Nazis see Jews as people.
That's pretty much what's being said here. Can we please be realistic and not pretend that both sides are equal and valid in their rationale and behavior? If someone starts punching every gay person around them, you don't tell the gay people to be more cooperative and understanding, you arrest the fucker and punish them.
Hopefully the military decide to end the clown show after that insanity earlier today
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