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Some Canadians bash out system but usually its those that don't get what triage is.
Like my wife felt I'llwee went to emerge, maybe waited 4-6 hours. Low blood sugar doctor recommended eating higher protein snacks in between meals.
But when they figured out I had cancer it was fast track for everything.
In america you die
The thing about Canadian care is that it usually works well for urgent and life saving care. If you don't like the wait for non urgent items, you have to option to pay - you just need to travel somewhere to get it done. The media likes to go on about the cases when people die while waiting but some of them were so sick they weren't going to make it anyway. Having quick access to ER isn't a guarantee that you will survive the heart attack symptoms you've been ignoring for the last month.
the heart attack symptoms you’ve been ignoring for the last month.
Uh huh, what about all the times it's the medical cretins who are doing the ignoring?
ego of medical professionals is something thats a little tougher to control systematically.
People who think America has better healthcare are either wealthy, or don't have any health issues they deal with regularly.
Even upper middle class Americans have shitty healthcare. But many or most of them are proud of learning the system so they refuse to consider that they could have been getting fucked their whole lives.
Or they haven't experienced healthcare elsewhere, so all they have for comparison is what pharma is talking them
Lol if you got a real problem in Canada, you're in and out. No fucking around. Trauma, injury, blood everywhere, yah you get stabilized and attention right away. Hell, I've gotten into a car accident. Bad one, no injuries though, got home started to feel rough after the adrenalin kicked out went to hospital said what's up, in 40 min I had xray, CT scan, and an all clear, see ya.
You come with a flu? Go sit your ass down maybe they will see you tommorow.
When I was a kid, in America, I got a huge gash in my head that required stitches. It took them so long to see me in the waiting room they had to reopen the wound to stitch it shut.
Same, I fell at summer camp and spent so long in the ER I dozed off, they just used a butterfly bandaid on my head though (nice scar under my eyebrow). My parents were pissed about the bill.
That's especially nuts since head injuries usually get priority.
Cut my finger off twice, almost lost my foot to sepsis whilst camping, and was witness/transport for 2 different heart attacks.
Longest I've waited for serious treatment is about 5 minutes, most expensive was a 50$ parking ticket.
You're being fleeced like fools
Bro take more precautions
When I went to Econ class, the professor explained that we call it "Free Market Economics" because of four freedoms:
The reward is that free markets are efficient: they lead to the lowest prices and greatest exchange of goods. That is the reason we have them.
When the four freedoms are not mandated, the market fails in different ways, and that's absolutely expected. When information is available to some before it is to others, we get price distortions - that's where insider trading laws come from.
Health care, the prof explained, suffers from the fact there is no freedom of participation. You either buy care or you suffer the potentially deadly consequences. That's why free markets and health care are fundamentally incompatible: they are expected to be.
Healthcare is the literal example of inelastic demand my prof used to teach us the concept. If you die without it, then there is no price where a reasonable actor can choose to stop participating in the market.
I feel like #3 no longer exists for anything in the US economy. You get one product in each niche either owned by 3 companies whose executives all have lunch together (egg farms, meat, ram manufacturers, etc) or where its just absolutely so black boxed its unclear what the product actually is (windows, google, ai etc)
There's no freedom of information either. Good luck getting your healthcare provider (your doctor, the hospital) to tell you how much any given procedure will cost in advance.
Triage.... I've spent a few hours in the ED waiting room for basic stuff. I've walked right through with serious stuff.
Today i crushed my finger in a metal door and it started bleeding a LOT because the metal cut my skin.
In the beginning i did not want to go to the ER, but then my SO persuaded me "what if you get sepsis and it needs to be amputated???"
I went there and i waited 1 hour only for triage (i can understand it, everyone was dying on a hospital bed while i had this little cut on the finger)
after triage the doctor says we need to xray. Xray?? Don't need it's just a cut, not broken, i don't feel painful. She persuades me to wait another hour for the xray and i am a bit pissed because now i have to waste time for xraying a finger that's definitely not broken, just cut and bleeding.
Result: i broke my index finger. WHAT?? I did not expect this conclusion.
Total paid €0, total time 3 hours
12 hrs is pretty standard wait time where I live in the US...
I was in such a good spot for this year. My 1 year old son had to have a life saving surgery in march which left us with a $36,000 bill to be paid, but also meant we hit out deductible and out of pocket max so everything for the rest of the year was free. I finally booked an appointment with a new cardiologist (we moved and I haven't been in 2 years even though I'm supposed to go every 6 months), a new GP, I was ready to book a therapist and all the other little health things I just can't afford but should do. About a week before my first appointment with the new cardiologist I went to pick up my refill for my heart medication and my insurance wasn't working so I had to pay $120 for it since they were closing soon and I was already out. When I got home I checked and my insurance was terminated. Turns out my company switched insurance providers and sent the cards to my old address so I had no clue.
Hopefully my heart will be fine for a few more years. Thank god my old cardiologist is still filling my script.
(American) I went to the ER back in May and still don't know what it will cost me. Insurance keeps denying the hospital's bill, asking for more documentation.
12 hours and $35k? Stop your bullshit. I've dealt extensively with healthcare in the US. It's more like 10 months and $110k.
My partner is literally waiting 10 months to see a rheumatologist for debilitating joint pain. A virtual visit, no less.
To be fair I had to have an organ removed due to exploding or something. It took less than 24 hours. Then insurance denied it-no way to tell if said exploding organ was an elective surgery or required by the doctor who required us to do it.
Apparently all the cool kids are doing elective organ removal these days.
Last year my best friend got diagnosed with cancer, and his VA docs let him sit 3 months between appointments. By the time they offered a treatment plan, he had become terminal, almost a year in. He died last June. It's really quietly horrifying to see it play out in real-time.
That's heartbreaking. I'm so sorry for your loss.
The American healthcare system killed my grandpa by waiting so long to care for his severe foot infection that his heart (which was already damaged from a heart attack 15ish years prior) couldn't handle the strain anymore and he passed away. I will never forgive that hospital or the insurance companies involved, and I never even got to say goodbye to him. That kind of shit doesn't happen as frequently here in Canada and I am thankful for the system we do have, flaws and all.
Accurate. I had an afib issue recently, went to the hospital at 9pm and sat there in the emergency room bed all night because they told me the cardiologist needed to see me before they could treat me. The cardiologist got in at 9am, and I continued to wait until 12:30pm without seeing them. It finally went back to normal rhythm at that point and I was discharged a few hours later. Luckily I have health insurance, so I didn’t have to pay much, but I don’t live in bumblefuck; I live in a pretty populated area of New York and was sitting there waiting for treatment for over 15 hours. It’s a dumb argument that we don’t have to wait for treatment as long as countries with socialized healthcare.
It’s a dumb argument that we don’t have to wait for treatment as long as countries with socialized healthcare.
Yeah it's super disingenuous. They like to pretend like we don't have wait times for specialists too. It's ridiculous that people still try to use those arguments.
Oh that’s another thing; it’s two months to see a cardiologist by me… so they wanted me to follow up with a cardiologist after I got out of the emergency room and it’s a two month wait.
It's weird, I had a-fib recently and the hospital didn't let me see a cardiologist. I asked several times in the 3 days I was there, and the answer was always no. Until they discharged me, and then it was "you should see a cardiologist ASAP."
American here. Reluctantly went to the ER because I had been vomiting for a couple of days. Turned out that my gallbladder just stopped working. Was immediately placed into a room, given IV antibiotics, and had surgery the next morning.
Had to stay for 4 days to make sure I was in good shape. The surgery wasn’t super expensive, but the room itself cost me way too much.
Total cost was just over $24k. No insurance (contractor). Even on payments, it’s insane.
My plan is to just never get sick for the rest of my life so I don’t go into another debt hole.
You can haggle with them. Save up a few k and then call them offering to pay a lump sum to settle the debt. A few years ago I broke my wrist and ended up with a 16k bill. I got 3k together, called them, told them I'm poor AF, that they could take the 3k or nothing. They took the 3k.
There's a horror in having to haggle for the price of your healthcare whilst in the hospital.
I ended up in the emergency room last year.
The ambulance ride was something like $1200, which I've come to learn was "cheap" comparatively speaking, as they're typically thousands of dollars each. My insurance didn't cover the cost of that ambulance because the particular service that picked me up was out-of-network. Insurance also didn't cover the ibuprofen I was given for pain citing the fact that they require prior authorization for it. Two ibuprofen alone cost me $40.
Medical debt aside, (not that it's not important) you are an example of something that's true about both systems: If you are at death's door you'll get treatment immediately, even if it's just to stop you actively dying and stabilize you enough to wait for admission to the ICU. If you are waiting 12 hours in the ER before being seen by anyone but Triage, you're probably the least sick/wounded person there.
Maybe instead of cursing the nurses and doctors, muster up the most powerful curse you can conjure, and send it to the germs and cancer cells in the Children's Ward. Can't hurt, might help. I like to start with "Fuck you, you filthy neuroblastomas! With your disgusting corrupted DNA and misshapen tumors oozing and squooging into places you don't belong! Just fucking shrivel up and die! Don't you know nobody wants you here? You're fucking waste, so waste yourself and go out the shithole!"
Then see if you can call some good vibes for a quick resolution to the people who look miserable enough to be ahead of you. You're on your own there, I'm not so good at prayers or that kind of thing.
Also a summertime reminder: a lot of people in the ER these months will be getting an IV because they're severely dehydrated. And others will be getting an IV because their ability to withstand whatever else they have will be improved by getting better hydrated. You can help keep yourself and your friends out of there by pre-emptively drinking more water and non-alcoholic no-caffeine drinks, and being a ...did "hydro homie" get ruined when I wasn't paying attention?
hydro homie is not ruined yet, as far as I'm aware.
I had a 14ga puncture wound last year in Canada, about 1" from my femoral artery. Rapidly flowing blood, tourniquet applied on-scene just below the groin.
Ambulance was on scene quickly, I was immediately put into the trauma center in the ER, stapled, full body CT with contrast, tetanus booster and some more stuff I don't remember. Time in ER waiting room: zero. Time in hospital: ~1.5 hr total, mostly spent waiting for a follow up outside the ER.
I paid $250 for the ambulance and nothing else. Canada's healthcare system is GREAT at keeping you alive (if you're not indigenous, which is a true national shame).
Canada's healthcare system is not amazing at keeping you healthy. Something minor and chronic? Get fucked, it's a 2 year wait for a specialist referral. Minorly hurt but not at risk of death? Yeah enjoy the 4-10 hour wait in the ER room. When will you be seen? Idk when we can get to it. Want to see a doctor? Walkin will see you for free in about 45 minutes. Want to see your doctor? Yea they're out this month working at the hospital, how's 3 months from now?
All of this is vastly better than my time growing up in the US where the hospital missed diagnosing me with pneumonia and gave me permanent lung scarring. Or missed my fractured ankle on the xray and said I was fine. And then billed my parents 10's of thousands of dollars.
Canada’s healthcare system is GREAT at keeping you alive
Canada’s healthcare system is not amazing at keeping you healthy
This is perhaps the most accurate explanation I’ve ever heard for our healthcare system here in Canada. I’m definitely going to use this in future.
Fellow Americans. Whenever possible go to a local urgent care.
I've gotten xrays, stitches, prescriptions etc. Usually pay $50-$200
I had to wait in line with unhoused people at 8 am to get my prescriptions renewed for free. Emotional devastation.
I need my medical care to be segregated by social class damn it!
/s
send them $10/month to keep it out of collections. hey making an effort. after 7 years they write it off.
An ex had bad abdominal pain one night.
Trip to ER deemed emergency: free.
Night doctor determined likely gall stone, kept overnight in ER to be confirmed by morning ER doc: free.
Morning doctor determined non-critical issue, added to wait list and scheduled checkin with specialist in 2 months All free.
Same pain next night. Same song and dance, ambulance, same ER night doctor, this time he stays overtime to ensure that it gets an ultrasound booked. Ultrasound later that morning determines it needs to come out. Admitted same day for surgery. Bumped two days because literal life and death surgeries(c-sections and a motorcycle v car accident victim) and some time to let the surgeon have some sleep. He shows up and gets it done first thing.
Two weeks later, end up getting minor surgery for drain removal because her parent's cat purred on her nonstop and overhealed the drain scar.
All free.
Tldr: the Canadian system works on priority and is hobbled by conservatives.