Copyright laws are just state's monopoly on information, at this point.
this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2026
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False, they never bought your book.
Yep! Laws are literally only tools of oppression. They have never and will never protect you any time you need protecting. That is not what they're for.
They couldn't if they wanted to. Which they don't.
I'm not so sure about that. Murder being illegal is the only way to get justice when a family member is killed outside of retribution, and that opens a whole can of worms
Edit: Whether or not it's applied fairly is a different story and is likely the main issue, not that laws exist in general
being illegal
Ask an indigenous canadian, a black southeast american, or a trans person or sex worker anywhere how illegal murder is. Or anyone who disappeared after dating a cop
justice
Revenge is not justice. The state getting revenge 'for you' isn't even good revenge. Fuck that.
How the fuck is me grabbing a rifle and shooting a fucker I'm sure killed a loved one in the head any less justice than the state deciding to hire a bite mark analyst to frame the person they want to go down for it and making sure someone's punished so they look strong, then cooking them with a Looney toons gadget or dosing them with torture drugs til they die?
Neither of these things is justice, dead certain. Maybe neither of them should happen. But one of them would at least help repair some of the disempowerment and bring some dramatic shitty closure to my grief.
So even your worst case, the state is still more evil, fucked up, and useless for anything but the harm part.
That's how you get feuds.
Seriously, did you think that the people convinced they're right taking it into their own hands would stop with you? Haven't you seen all those parents and other relatives arguing that their kid/whatever could never have done it? Even after mountains of evidence, let alone after they're just gunned down? Some of them don't even care if they did it!
And once its a social expectation that return violence will come if you retaliate, the logical next step is to wipe out the offending family. Because that's the only way to take revenge and be safe. Shit gets bad fast.
One of the prime benefits of our "justice" system taking over the revenge business is limiting feuds.
Bitch if you just wanna rehash some warmed over uncle tom (the more problematic one) bullshit you're free but I got over this 'leviathan' crap by the time I hit puberty and have no patience for it.
If you got nothing better than 'but leviathan!' and can't read the clauses in what I wrote, or acknowledge any of the rest of what I said, you can go fuck yourself, 'cuz I'm having not 'gone be involved.
Missed a major part: the AI companies are buying rare books, scanning them and then burning them. It's not like buying a DVD which can easily be digitally copied with hardware that most people have at home, it's so mucn worse than that.
The AI company doesn't even have to buy it.
A story as old as time.
Which means unlimited corrupt folk to eat.
Whether or not we can make long term change, idk.
But seeing these folk suffer sure would be nice regardless.
I agree with the conclusion, but that rationale is wrong. First, you can digitize a DVD. Second, it's not a double standard. You can grab copies of random stuff and jam it in an AI model too.
Our laws are written such that it's making a copy outside of reasonable use that's illegal, and AI training only makes a copy incidentally to what they're doing and then it's deleted. It's the same standard that makes viewing a photo on an artists website legal.
It's not bullshit because they're breaking the law, but because we need to refine the law to make it clear training an AI model isn't a reasonable usage anymore than a public broadcast of a DVD is a reasonable use.
Trying to shoehorn it into the existing laws will just create a nightmare of loopholes and complications.
AI training only makes a copy incidentally to what they’re doing and then it’s deleted. It’s the same standard that makes viewing a photo on an artists website legal.
That's not what the U.S. Copyright office says about training. They hold that it does implicate the copyright of reproduction. Meaning: If you train on a protected work without a license you are violating copyright, and if that's not a fair use then you are breaking the law.
Training ~ viewing might be an analogy used by "AI" brands, but it is not legal reality.
Its a slopper who wants to project these spreadsheets as 'conscious' when what's happening is they're essentially being transcoded into statistical models.
Yup. Give a Markov chain multi-billion parameters and you can get some surprisingly cogent results.
I will freely admit that current LLM architectures include several innovations that make them not actually Markov chains, but it's still statistics and linear algebra. I don't know what thought is, but I'm quite unconvinced that LLMs (or any current generative AI architecture) is doing it.
I don’t know what thought is, but I’m quite unconvinced that LLMs (or any current generative AI architecture) is doing it.
Okay, why not? I also don't know what thought is, so I don't think it's possible to say if an LLM is or is not doing it. And giving wrong or incoherent answers doesn't invalidate it as thought or your local stoner buddy would be considered brain dead.
Nah. Shut the fuck up slopper. If you're going to insult us and then ask chatgpt to win the argument, which you always do and it always misses the point, I'm not going to answer your question.
The fact is these systems can do what a lot of humans do. That's not because the matrix multiplication is identical to thinking, but because most of these humans have never thought in their lives, do not have interiority, and are not people in any way that matters. Prove you're conscious if you want me to address you as such, fucking slopper.
I could've sworn a court case decided otherwise. Literally EVERY AI model in existence right now is commiting copyright theft on a massive scale if that's the interpretation the courts took. Which is why I have a hard time buying it. I fear it's reached the idea of normalcy in people's minds and we'll never see it illegal.
There's been a couple court cases (that I know of / at least), and one judge was accepting on the argument that model training was a "fair use" while the other was not. I think both of those rulings came down prior to the publication of the U.S. Copyright Office guidelines.
Also, I'm not 100% sure that the U.S. Copyright Office is an authority here. The DOJ and/or Federal judiciary would have the authority to interpret the copyright laws: The DOJ to decide to prosecute, and the judiciary to make binding rulings and/or advise juries. I'm sure both the DOJ and the judiciary will give a lot of weight to the guidelines, but the guidelines aren't actually the law.
In any case, you can read the guidelines and make your own decisions: https://www.copyright.gov/ai/ Part 3 is about training, and I think the damning bits are III, B and D. Part 2 is about outputs, and I think the damning bits are II, B and D.2. (My summaries: 1. Training infringes 2. Outputs that are substantially similar infringe 3. models get no copyright 4. prompts are NOT 'human creative effort' and thus are insufficient to establish copyright 5. human creative effort still gets copyright protections, even when generative AI is used as a tool in the creative process.)
It is likely that commercial generative AI is in violation of a lot of copyrights, yes. Research projects are fair use, but only as long as they stay research projects.
The larger part of the infringement is probably its use commercially. I doubt that there would have been such a fuss if it was a fully-open, low-profit operation.
But as-is, the commercial products are being used to make money for the AI company in an unauthorised way.
Similar to how it's generally frowned upon for fan media to make money, because it starts being infringement. You can have a "support the fan media maker" button, but you generally can't do things like put your fan media behind a pay wall. The IP owners will come down hard on you for that.
Commercializing a work virtually guarantees it's creation isn't "fair use".
But also, "fair use" is actually quite a bit more narrow than just non-commercial.
There may be a limitation if the DVD is copy-protected, as is usually the case. There's too much to read for a single comment in DMCA: https://www.congress.gov/105/plaws/publ304/PLAW-105publ304.pdf
But it does fall under this definition (§1201):
‘‘(a)(3) As used in this subsection—
‘‘(A) to ‘circumvent a technological measure’ means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner;
and
‘‘(a) VIOLATIONS REGARDING CIRCUMVENTION OF TECHNOLOGICAL MEASURES.—(1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.
They hyphenated techno-logical both times in the second paragraph? Was it a line break both times, or was the moron who wrote it really that out of touch with the topic he was writing laws for?
Line break, I'll fix it.
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Why don't you just buy a few senators and do something about it, if you're so upset?
Yup. Donors get policies, voters get apologies.
Donors get policies, voters get ~~apologies~~ fined.
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remember folks: the entire problem is capitalism. it can literally all be solved by dismantling capitalism and …undismantling some guillotines.
Now you have upgraded to a more limited number of rich assholes with even more concentrated power. Oh wait, a couple of decades later they reintroduce capitalism too.
It's unclear that is inevitable, but it does seem to be a common result of State socialism.
In libertarian socialism, hoarding resources will be recognized as an attack on the commons that can be answered with an attack (by the people) on the hoarder.
How in the world is that going to be policed?
In libertarian socialism, the people are the police. There's no States, so no state-organized and state-privileged police force. I could be wrong though, I still need a lot of education around libertarian socialism; I'm very much used to Capitalism.
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Yep. The "fine OR imprisonment" part means fines for the rich, and imprisonment for the poor.
The filthy rich only go to prison for stealing from other filthy rich assholes.
“If the penalty for a crime is a fine, then that law only exists for the lower class”
- Final Fantasy Tactics (1997)
97?! I was that old already... I thought this was older
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It's the best Ju$tice money can buy.
I'm not pirating, I'm building an AI model
Honestly, this sounds like the best test of copyright laws.
If corporations can train models on pirated data, and corporations are persons, then you, as a person, should be able to infringe copyright to train an AI model too.
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I'm sick of twitter reposts and this format, write the damn thing yourself i trust someone on lemmy more than i trust someone on twitter
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