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If democrat politicians weren't so shit it wouldn't be so close in the first place
So true, the Democrats had a fucking easy ass win all lined up and threw it so hard. 1.6B in campaign funds and they ran on, "We are changing nothing, but at least we aren't republicans."
Everyone below the upper middle class knows the government is not working for the people. People voted for trump because he ran on change. We know he is a liar and using politically uneducated people to push the right wing agenda, but the primary message of his campaign was what people wanted. And he won.
3rd party/non-voters didn't help, but the loss is primarily on the Democrats.
we need to be honest with ourselves.
Being angry at republicans for blowing up the government is reasonable.
It's also reasonable to be angry at the democrats, who sat around watching them work towards blowing up the government for fifty years and being like "hurrdurr FAIRNESS!" while doing nothing to stop it.
I think most of us are pretty angry at Democrats as well.
Yup.
I’m just reacting to all the “it’s the voter’s fault”- not you, really.
Like, No. the democrats haven’t done anything to stop this. Even when they literally campaigned on it.
Don’t blame voters.
I remember having arguments with these Blue MAGA muppets during the election. I kept trying to explain to them why it was insanity to pretend the economy was fine. But they were morons with a 1984 streak that would make Orwell blush, and thought they could just manifest their way to an election victory. They kept citing CPI data, saying, "but inflation adjusted wages have never been higher!" When you pointed out that inflation purposefully leaves out a lot of the volatility in prices people were reeling from, and how not all income groups experience inflation equally? They didn't want to hear it.
Remember the absolutely insulting, just disgustingly condescending term "vibession?" I do. That term alone probably cost Kamala the election. The only thing that makes people angrier than having to deal with a rotten economy is to have their leaders gaslight them and pretend nothing is wrong.
These morons didn't want to hear it. They have a three monkeys belief system. Just ignore all problems, pretend everything is fine, and just try to bluff your way to victory on election day. You point out the suicidally stupid policies that were killing the Kamala campaign, and they just acted like three year olds saying, "harumf, I guess you want Trump to win!"
This is exactly what people are referring to when they describe liberal arrogance. Criticism is unacceptable. Shut up and tow the line. Vote Blue No Matter Who (unless there's a progressive on the ticket.)
Vote in primaries, run for office.
Lose rigged primaries
You know I've had a DNC member admit to me that they intentionally kill primary campaigns, right?
this yet again, still seething.
democrat failure is a failure of the democrats. they knew the assignment, they didn’t want to pay the price. they chose this reality instead
I too like punching down at people with no power. It would be too much for democratic leadership to learn the lessons of 2016 and 2024. Just blame progressives and people who want better things!
Barely anyone voted for third parties. I have much more blame for the people who didn’t bother voting than the people who voted third party.
I’ll also call out that “not bothering” ignores that a huge sect of the public gets their vote falsely purged, or has their polling location closed, or some other voter suppression tactic.
True, but I also read that the non voters were also about evenly split, it's not like only the anti trump people stayed home.
He just had the popular advantage, mostly an indictment of the then status quo rather than an endorsement of Trump or indictment of Biden.
This community is still in denial from last year I see, I guess none of you braindeads learned your lesson huh
Even funnier now that the DNC approved candidate is running as a 3rd party in NYC after losing his own primary. Suddenly no issue voting for an independent candidate there.
Many core issues were addressed, from climate change to women's rights and LGBTQ+ rights, to concerns over economy (which were improving and have since been downgraded).
Opponent was objectively worse in Every. Single. Conceivable way. It is after all, a binary choice.
Uncommitted fucked off entirely on their, absent of any comparative logic.
The biggest thing that comes out of reading threads like this is the erosion of my original belief that I thought the uncommitted were at least smarter and strategic and and more empathetic and more aware of FPTP voting. There is one big reason why Trump won: People were duped by endless amounts of billionaire's money, seeing Trump at his best and Harris at her worst. I thought folks like you were above that; but alas, you drank the kool-aid just the same.
Edit: For the record, I think massive change in the Democratic party must come. That is not an easy task, but it's the easiest path.
Well, at least they voted and did their duty as a citizen of democratic nation. Some people didn't even bother to do that much, so for these people they don't get to complain.
You're blaming the one independent when there's 80k red voters?
Of course, you can't fix stupid. At least a communist can goddamn read, so they're worth talking to.
You call this "talking to"?
I'm getting tired of this back and forth. This bickering is childish and our time would be better spent drumming up positive interest for ranked choice voting.
That's a huge uphill battle, it's outright banned in 17 states. Yes, we absolutely should be doing everything within our power to drum up positive interest, but absolute best case scenario it's going to take several election cycles. We still need to make viable plans for the interim.
If that's an uphill battle then this useless bickering is a pitch black spelunking
That's not a bad analogy actually: advocating third parties is like insisting we dive deeper down the cave, while everyone else insists it's time to go back up. I'm not sure it's useless bickering, we're all tied together and the guy in the meme is endangering us all.
I don't accept that. You clearly know nothing of the social/working movements of the early 1900s. The hallmark progressive achievenments made in this country, many that still exist today (to varying degrees ofc) were a result of literal blood, sweat and tears from third parties.
The Progressive Party led by Roosevelt, The Bull Moose Party with social reformers like Jane Addams and Florence Kelly, the Socialist Party of Eugene Debs.... all of these were most prominent in fighting for and ultimately producing a cluster of social welfare, social insurance reforms, women's suffrage, workers rights/5 day work week, etc.
It was the dedication, pressure and will to not fall in line trying to change the two-party duopoly from within but to build their own movements, their own coalitions on the outside, and thus the mainstream parties were eventually forced to inscribe the populus demands into legislation.
Healthy third parties are a good thing. It builds actual pressure on your legislators. Politicians wont work on your behalf when they know you're voting for them anyway — they're lining their pockets with money from the bourgeois they actually legislate for. Seeking the change you wish to see via third party can and has produced monumental value for the working class.
But sure continue spelunking and misplacing your frustrations on your fellow worker instead of holding your desired candidate/party accountable for their bs offering. We'll keep climbing that hill in the meantime.
Got it, you don't actually think bickering is useless, you just want the people who disagree with you, even partially, to shut up. Very cool.
You clearly know nothing of the social/working movements of the early 1900s.
Why would that be relevant? That was a century ago. The world is different, people are different, there's been a century of anti-left propaganda. It's a fundamentally different situation. You can't keep trying to use the 19th century playbook on the 21st. Update your models homie.
False. I never suggested bickering as a whole is useless. Sometimes it's helpful to inform others, like I just did for you. You're welcome.
And the fact that you willfully dismiss the invaluable lessons of the past, particularly with regards to class struggle, tells me all I need to know — as if a century is a long time ago, I have grandparents still alive born from that time period ha. Neglect history, continue to wander aimlessly.
Lol @ homie. Have a nice day
I'm not bickering, just informing you.
So is everyone you accuse of bickering. We're informing you. That is the most basic premise of dialectics. Without the discussion of thesis and antithesis, there is no synthesis. When one party "informs" another and expects them to accept the thesis uncritically, that is autocracy.
I never neglected the lessons of the past, but they are most relevant to the conditions that produced them. You are neglecting all the history that happened in between. I spent a lot of time with my great grandmother born in 1915. The world is a very different place. We can't keep dusting off grandma's praxis.
You are also neglecting the most basic premise of materialism: align your actions to the actual conditions, not idealism. Continue to neglect materialism for idealism, and you will wander aimlessly.
You're full of fallacies and just talking nonsense at this point. Again, have a nice day.
Bicker bicker bicker
🦗🦗🦗
Behold, a dialectic.
🦗🦗🦗🦗
If it doesn't happen now, many self-proclaimed 'leftists' aren't interested.
Apparently the 60+ years of groundwork leading up the Russian Revolution just aren't interesting enough for them.
democrats have a vested interest in preventing ranked choice voting and have already acted to prevent it in areas where it won. So i think fixing the democrats would have to be the first order of business
Agreed, but how do we get it implemented?
Watching Biden kiss billionaire ass was way better than watching Trump's construction of concentration camps and also kiss billionaire ass.