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The fact of the matter is in an election where [ANYONE] vs FASCIST is the choices..
YOU FUCKING VOTE FOR ANYONE.
I honestly don’t believe this is still a conversation!! My god you people are not just determined to repeat the mistakes of the past- you’re running headlong right towards it!
So fucking embarrassing.
It's hard to blame the voters in the light of recent events.
Voters just handed the Democrats an insane mandate. Ignoring the voters and caving in to the fascists a week later sends a very clear message, "We don't care about your vote."
Actions speak louder than words.
We voted, they caved into Republicans.
We voted, they "had a stroke and suddenly are evil."
We voted, they gave up.
But we're the bad guys for learning from mistakes and not them, with teams of think tanks and backings of billionaires for polling dat?
I’m gonna be devil’s advocate here for a moment. I followed Mamdani’s campaign closely and I think he nailed it on the spot. You had two politicians running whereas one lied that he’ll reduce prices and make America great again and the other.. did nothing for the most part. From the eyes of the average voter Kamala promised nothing but the status quo, and they wanted change. That’s how Dem strongholds flipped red during this election and how a lot of them went back to blue for the mid term elections. If she told her donors to get stuffed and worked for the working class instead of exploiting the working class she would’ve won.
What a mess we live in. Both options will fuck you over, only one of them will do it with lube.
It was a terrible campaign spoken to people who where/are hurting telling them they where actually in fact doing great.
It was worse then doing nothing, saying it was mostly nothing is being kind. Once again they just assumed they would win and forgot that people looking for any help will swallow lies over the safer status quo choice. That is why when the big man gamble blew up in their face they vote blue again. The real issue is this is why the dems never have to change, they don't even oppose the other side anymore, they just wait to have their turn.
Watching this mess is just infuriating, seeing the endless exceptionalism and team based bullshit more so.
Of course there were many foolish voters out there but it's not good enough for a candidate to be not Donald Trump. The reality is that many people will stay home when they see dirty corporate politicians running for office. And you can blame the people all you want, but that doesn't change reality, and they'll still stay home.
I think what's embarrassing is your approach. You saw 2016 and 2024 and you still haven't learned from either of them. It turns out that people vote or don't vote for a variety of reasons, and a simplistic approach like yours is a failed approach.
lol! Thanks! Needed this.
The problem with this logic, is that these are the options you have, and the DNC doesn't care about this, so you, as not the DNC have 2 options. Support the democrats, or support trump.
All of the whining in the world won't change this.
Why are you talking to that other commenter as if they are the DNC? They're not the ones responsible for their political strategy.
They're taking the only logical option within their locus of control, and you're acting like somehow they should have done what exactly?
If you are in a nation that has only two choices and one is a FASCIST, you are in a fascist nation without real choice. You are once again embarrassing yourself to the rest of the world with this endless team based bullshit.
IF THERE IS ONLY ONE "CORRECT" CHOICE THEN THERE IS NO CHOICE!
This is what you all get when you turn your whole system into a fixed 2 headed hydra for years and years, but when you needed to stand up and change the system you all instead point fingers and blame instead of doing anything.
You are acting as if it was not trump the nominee you wouldn't have the same rhetoric. The lesser of the two state evil logic didn't start during Trump first compaign in 2016
I did not have the same rhetoric when Biden was in office, come now this is next level putting words in my past hypothetical mouth.
We agree that the two party system is and has been a total joke of a democratic system however.
lol. Good one!
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
Your nation is a joke and the rest of the world is done with your shit.
The rest of the world does the exact same shit. I don't know why you types outside the US think you're somehow immune to facism, bigotry, and economic exploitation. And i say this living outside the US
When did I state otherwise? I know every nation is not immune, that is why american exceptionalism is frustrating.
And what esteemed nation are YOU from?
Canada, what is your point? We have our issues but last I checked we are not trying to take over Greenland.
My point is that Canada isn't good enough to look down upon the USA. And that's putting it lightly.
Oh that we disagree with, Canada is more then good enough for such a simple task.
K. Byeeee! Blocking you now as you have no dog in this race and just seem to want to bitch at someone.
Perfect, just like your leaders, you would prefer living in a make believe world then live in reality.
Clearly I have no "dog in this race" as if your shitstain of a nation is not in anyway involved with the world at all.
Oh but wait you can't see this and for some reason trying to make blocking someone some sort of slight.
No no it's somehow the left's fault... Not left enough, that might be true though.
Sorry Blue Maga, you will never win just because you are Hitler (D) vs Hitler.
Truly, the amount of people on this website who will bend over backwards to push third party/protest votes despite all evidence that that is insanely naive and the equivalent to shooting their own legs off is insane.
Somehow, these people, after decades of it not working, think that the democrats losing will magically bring in progressive Valhalla, because they literally refuse to acknowledge that the very obvious solution, that is equivalent to eating your veggies and doing exercise, is that the democrats have to keep winning, and they have to keep voting in progressives through primaries, state and local politics.
Its extremely obvious to anyone who understand the 2 party supporting winner takes all/first past the post system they have.
Oh cool. Another Liberal completely blind to the internal workings of their chosen party. What pearls of wisdom do you have for us?
I voted for Kamala. This was the first time in 20 years that I've cast my vote Alone.
I rally everyone I can. And every time I had a rhetorical lever to remind my friends and family about the importance of this casual action, Kamala herself would rush to a camera to undermine everything I tried to say.
"End the genocide!" Well shit, she came out as a full throated Zionist. Her and her party did anything and everything to alienate everyone who views Palestinians as human.
"One genocide is better than two" well fuck, she promised to be harder on the border than a fucking Nazi.
"Trans survival rests on this" aaaand I watched her stand agast at any suggestion that she assert the reality that Trans Women are Women.
"We should codify Roe V Wade" and... Crickets from her.
People were hurting and the economy was in the toilet? All she could do was talk up Biden's effort, sans evidence.
Her backers, her sponsors, her consultants, her party infrastructure all made sure she refused to stand for anything. Ever.
And I blame you Lemmings for allowing this shit for actual decades. You haven't had a real Primary since 2008, and you call this Democracy?
Have the day you voted for - A half step up from the Maga reality of today, but with more concessions for Maga than even your own base or agenda.
The fact this is the type of shit that gets upvotes here is why you're never pulling out.
You rant about democrats as if you choosing to lop your own legs off will make them so angry they're suddenly going to do what you want.
You act like children, and ignore the obvious because it feels good to be angry at someone, and the democrats are the closest thing to being an org that will listen.
Instead though, you, as you admitted, in the most important election in your life, choose to stop caring.
Look at how childish all of your retorts are about all of the various things that she absolutely would not have specifically hurt if she had won.
You think she would actively be encouraging israel to flaten palestine?
You think she would be making ICE the actual gestapo?
As for Roe v Wade, how exactly do you expect democrats to do such a thing without a senate super majority?
You literally expect the impossible, and then give up and cry when you don't get that.
Yet that was clearly the better option that shooting your own legs off.
How do you not realize that the DNC literally is incentivised to offer less and less if the country keeps flipping back and forth? Then, all they have to do is correctly assert that they are the non insane option, and offer to undo some of the damage done.
This is what they've done. This is what Biden has done, and somehow to you, you think that throwing a tantrum and literally getting marginalized people killed really got one over on the rich conservatives at the head of the DNC who will never see the inside of a grocery store.
What does this even mean exactly. You are clearly angry at some group you can't actually specify.
This comment really reinforces how much you misunderstand your own system. You'd rather hurt people because you can't get your idealistic wishes.
Of course , you sound very ignorant or just use palestinians for political reasons. Gaza is flatened because of the billions of dollars you give to israel and all the weapons they get which every single goddamn US war criminal presidents did since the creation of the terrorist state of israel so how the hell do you think Harris would stop doing that?
Its this type of insane take which makes it impossible to have useful discourse.
There are literally 2 options, and you would rather choose the one with the worse outcome because they both suck. Thats simply immature and self harming in nature.
Again, I voted for her. I did everything I could to rally people to vote for her. And at every step of the way, she undermined my effort.
Glad to see your reading comprehension is just as deep as that of a Maga voter.
Do I expect her to accomplish anything? Nope, she's a Democrat. Do I expect her to at least sell herself as a candidate? Yes, that's the entire fucking point of an election.
So... Concede to Fascists, and pretend that's a winning strategy. Gotcha.
Given the choice between diet Hitler, and full flavored commitment? The country will choose the Marlboro Reds of Fascism for at least being consistent. This is not up to me.
You will accept whatever Slop the unDemocratic party gives you, and be okay because "at least its not 100% Hitler, we're doing better!" As the country slides into Hell. This is your fault for pretending Reaganite madness is the Center, and everyone else is "insane Leftists".
Meanwhile, Mamdani had a vision, and people mobilized behind it. Won his election by the largest margin in a NYC Mayoral race since 1968. Democrats win when turnout is High, and actually HAVING A PLATFORM drives turnout.
Where was your "blue no matter who" for Zohran? Oh wait, it doesn't matter because the Party backed another friend of Epstein.
You people make me sick. I am actually having an easier time rehabbing Maga voters than talking to the people vote with at gunpoint.
You mentioned that you did not "This was the first time in 20 years that I’ve cast my vote Alone." Unless I misunderstood that to mean you expect me to believe that despite them losing less than 10% of their voter base, 100% of people you knew didn't show up.
This is literally what you appear to be advocating for. Im utterly confused by this attempt to reframe things.
Calling Kamala Harris diet hitler is lunacy.
It seems you are clearly arguing in bad faith when you on one hand pretend that you voted for and supported Harris, yet on the other hand, say this.
These are not congruent thoughts.
One of these things must be a lie.
I mean look at this intensly obvious bad faith strawman argument: "and everyone else is “insane Leftists”.
What are you arguing against out of anything I've mentioned here.
Everything you say seems to be in bad faith.
You are arguing against a person who is not a part of the DNC, because you do not like the strategy of the DNC, as if its that persons fault. This is not a sane position to hold.
You once again, describe yourself in the same group that you say makes you sick.
It once again seems like you must be lying.
Fascinating. So any disagreement must be "in bad faith" to you?
The very platform your politicians advocate for is concessionary, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise. All of them. From Chuck Schumer conceding on the Shutdown, to Obama just adopting Romneycare as his own? The party exists to fold to Republicans.
Support? Now that's a strong word. Voted for, advocated for in conversation? Your black and white thinking is showing.
You support the platform of the DNC, the party insiders by proxy when you continue to support their bullshit even a year after the election. I do not care that you are just as powerless over their internal processes as I am. You continue to express your Stockholm Syndrome for their failing agenda, even as an actually viable alternative presents itself.
Break out. Turn off the MSNBC, leave the KHive, go try on Hasan Piker as an entry point for your therapy.
At this point there is clearly no good discussing anything with you when the very specific bad faith arguments you made have been pointed out precisely, but you choose to instead, again in bad faith, claim that its a meritless dismissal.
You also state you advocate for them though... where is your high horse unless you are lying.
Partially because you keep letting them do so with your rhetoric that utterly fails to understand how this works. They love switching back and forth for this reason. Without the flip flopping, they could be arm twisted into being more progressive, but you somehow wish so badly you could punish them for not doing as you please that youd rather see exactly what you claim to hate.
This is you being completely unable to see nuance.
You are, at this point, saying that you pretty much agree with what I am saying, but want to bash me for some made up beliefs you have where every person who believes the clear fact that of the 2 options democrats are the correct ones also completely supports how the DNC operates, which obviously is false.
What in the universe could this possibly mean. Are you suggesting that you will be supporting the republicans instead? Because it is one or the other, so this just goes back to your ridiculous assumption from above.
What viable alternative?
You speak in meandering riddles because ultimately your positions hold no merit. This is why all you can do is spout irrelevant rhetoric and specific criticisms against your views.
This says it all then doesn't it. You follow a pretend socialist influencer and think that means that you are are supirior to everyone else despite being unable to grasp the viewpoints of others nor state your own clearly.
Keep voting for the lesser of the two evils till there is nothing left to be saved. Trump won to begin with because the majority of americans though he was the lesser of the two evil
If you actually kept doing that you'd have not only much to be saved, but you'd eventually have a good option if following the rest of what I advise.
You types literally never have workable solutions. Your suggestions are all impractical hail marys because you refuse to acknoledge the actual solution is slow, and uncomfortable.
The two-party system is like two competing loggers who keep abusing tree chopping. One may be slower than the other but at the end the day the forest will disappear . The damage of a bad administration may need multiple good administrations to repair all the damage.
Please tell me why would any of the two parties listen to any single issue you have if you will going to vote for them again and again anyway
Yes , making a viable 3rd party solution is very slow and unconfortable
I literally explained at the very start of this exactly how it works. You vote in more progressives into the party to change its goals. The goals of the DNC are what you hate.
The 2 party system, you hate too, and thats reasonable, but its the system you have, and you're not getting away from it within a lifetime.
No. Its nonsensical, childish, and utterly dangerous for all the people you will be sacrificing just to fail to accomplish your goal.
Its an inherent flaw of 2 party systems. They do not support true 3rd parties because they do not have proportional representation. The end result of winner takes all/first past the post systems is such that you cannot simply make a third party, especially where the established party against the side you'll be weakening explicitly plans to completely remove your ability to vote.
This is obvious. You keep wanting to scream and be angry at people for acknowledging the system as it is and not simply throwing tantrums because it isnt how they wish it to be.
You will die too, not just the marginalized people you are so willing to throw away if you allow for republicans to gain a almost certain permanent rein, which is what supporting a third party would do.
The best thing you could do is actually to prop up third parties splitting off of republicans if you actually wanted to see a change.