exhibit 1 : American Psycho
this post was submitted on 06 Jan 2026
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Exhibit 2: Fight Club
Exhibit 3: Walter White
exhibit 4: The Boys
Patrick Bateman was the satirization of a metrosexual if anything.
He was not masculine at all in the rugged manly sense of the term.
Compare Rambo to Bateman. Rambo is the stereotypical manly man, who burns his own wound with a hot knife or gunpowder.
Patrick Bateman would scream like a little girl and freak out over his body being ruined and scarred.
I honestly think that's part of the appeal for those who idolize Bateman. He's particular and vane and envious. We are led to see his flaws as he sees them: extensions of justified righteous indignation at the world's resistance to his perfection, all. His narcissism fueling disgust for the world and everyone in it.
The jilted pampered white boy is exactly what they identify with.
Evaluate the comparison drawn in the final scene of the film. Bateman confesses again, in-person this time, to his lawyer who blows him off for reasons that could be debated within the narrative. The important bit for our discussion is that, regardless of the reasons for dismissal, the lawyer simply doesn't believe Bateman is capable of the crimes he confesses to.
Not even recognizing Bateman and mistaking Bateman for someone else the lawyer says: "Bateman's such a dork, such a boring, spineless lightweight..." "...Oh Christ. He can barely pick up an escort girl, let alone... What was it you said he did to her?"
After some more back and forth Bateman returns to his friend's table and finds his friends discussing Ronald Reagan's address regarding the Iran-Contra scandal. The sentiment is how unbelievable it is that someone so unassuming could do something so vile, brazenly lie about it, and almost get away with it.
To be dismissed as incapable while believing oneself cunning and depraved and wholly underestimated. To act on that depravity and take by brutal force. To confess vile crimes that go unpunished because no believes you capable of them... It's a twisted diamond in the rough story.
That's not the gritty visual masculinity we normally think of, as you say, but Bateman is rape culture personified and adorned in every tropey "high-class" commecialization of masculinity at the time. Couple that with anemoia for the eighties in a generation raised on algorithmically tuned psychological traps which weaponized toxic masculinity for profit and... Tada!
We strike resonance with a certain brand both of internet-raised narcissist and naive, disaffected, emotionally-immature manchild. Especially young men who've been emotionally manipulated into believing alt-right propaganda makes sense of a world they've been stymied from understanding.
I don't think it's because he doesn't think Bateman is capable of committing those crimes - far from it. Almost everyone in the film is a psychopath in their way (the sex workers are notable exceptions).
Nobody wants to deal with the consequences because it would upset the gravy train they're on. The lawyer doesn't want to hear a confession, the real estate agent doesn't want to acknowledge that crimes took place there etc. The world is built on ignoring things that distract from money. Everyone will lie to keep things rolling.
Eta: that's the joke in the book and movie title - Bateman is the psycho because he feels some remorse. Everyone just wants to carry on with their lives.
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Not satirizing metrosexual at all. He is the counterpoint to Gordon Gecko.
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Please, instead of more satirising toxic masculinity, can we have some more depictions of positive masculinity in lead roles like Aragorn from LotR?
Also, please feel free to list some good examples of positive masculinity in replies below because I and others I know could benefit from seeing more of that.
Ron Swanson, and to a greater point Nick Offerman.
New movie Superman.
I feel like it falls to the same problem. They will see Ron Swanson, a tridimensional complex character and just flat it to the "cool macho" stuff and ignore his character growth and confuse aspects that are flaws but maybe charming or colorful to actual qualities.
It’s an issue with being able to identify and assimilate positive traits, I think. Ron is a stoic and self-disciplined which is often read as emotionally repressed unnecessarily strict dad energy. Instead, it should be read as introspection, strong personal accountability, and authenticity and intentionality of thought and action. Ron also isn’t a reactive persona; when something challenges his beliefs, he chops down a tree while he mulls over the idea and decides how he wants to move on from the experience. Without the nuance, it just looks like a dude gets mad and does man stuff with an axe until he cools off.
He's also kind of a dumbass libertarian
If all libertarians were like Swanson, the world would be a better place.
This is our park and defiling it would violate the non-aggression principle.
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I love that Aaragorn is kind of unanimously agreed on as one of the best examples of positive masculinity.
Me too and yet it’s been too ling since last rewatch - can anybody explain why?
Just my 2 cents on a surface-level reading of the character because it's also been a while since I've watched it.
Aragorn is strong and capable, with a generally masculine image about him. He's handsome, good with a sword, rides horses, and commands respect by his presence.
But he is not prideful or boastful, he doesn't seek glory, and he's respectful to the women in his life.
At least the way the movies present it, his relationship with Arwen is one in which both partners are equal participants. Aragorn is not controlling, and Arwen isn't some damsel who lacks agency without her man there to tell her what to do. And when Eowyn shows affection towards him, he is quick to respectfully decline her advances without leading her on, thereby preserving a positive and supportive relationship between them.
That might be the sort of thing people are referring to, as far as his characterization. There might be more examples, but that's what I remember.
He also freely shows love to the rest of the fellowship and expresses emotion without shame.
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Also, please feel free to list some good examples of positive masculinity
Star Trek is kinda cheating, but Picard and Riker. Although some of Riker's behaviour could be seen as "use and abuse of power for sex" in some scenarios, like hitting on people at 10 forward while serving as first officer in the ship they are in.
I still love the scene where for some reason Worf and Riker are in 10 forward, Riker is hitting on ... someone and Worf says he wants to talk to that person. Riker's reaction is basically "Oh shit, you wanted to get with her? All good my man, I'll get out the way, you know me, dime's a dozen, I fuck everyone".
EDIT : I really like the way Star trek has lots of different examples on leadership styles and how there's multiple ways of being a good leader. Even Jellico, although his way of handling a transition sucks.
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I'm not sure if anyone else said, but Uncle Iroh from Avatar the last airbender.
One of the best farther figures in media. His treatment of Zuko; as Zouk is finding out who he is and what he stands for. Truly inspiring role model stuff.
Also Bandit Healer 👍
Ted Lasso
The emperor's new grove Kuzco just needed a positive father figure which Pacha starts to be near the middle of the movie.
I'm going to let you finish but , Commander Will Ricker from TNG portrays positive masculinity, in the greatest way.
..."because I can get real ones any time I want!"
IRL? H. Bomberguy
In fiction? Deadpool.
Honestly, a lot of bisexual and pansexual men and masculine characters are pretty well adjusted in part due to the fact that they are comfortable with who they are as a person and know what kinds of things make men attractive. Way too many men these days have a completely warped idea of what other people find attractive in men and toxic masculinity is built on a framework of those misconceptions.
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In this household, Shit Cumdick is an Italian American hero, END OF STORY!
Actually, come to think of it, Tony Soprano is a great example of this. The show is literally about him going to therapy because he can’t face the fact that he’s a toxic POS and he’s still lionized by a ton of people. The guy cheats on his wife on the regular, murders his own supposed friends, and is constantly just doing all manner of shithead stuff, but the morons still love him.
This is how I feel about Breaking Bad. At first, you feel kind of bad for Walt and his situation, but that should quickly chang especially as the seasons go on and he reveals how much more of a piece of shit he really is. But I also distinctly remember as people watched the show in real-time how fans would idolize Walt. Really baffled me at the time.
This one I can actually kind of understand because the shift is gradual. Like, if you started watching in season 3, it would be quite obvious that he's a piece of shit, but if you start in season 1, the viewer establishes that he's a sympathetic character and it's hard to really identify a firm moment when he goes from being sympathetic to villain. It's like the old 'boiling water with a frog in it' analogy... The viewer (at least it was true for me) tries to justify his increasingly bad actions because he's been established as a "good guy" in the beginning until at some point they just have to step back and think, "Wow... he's actually an awful person." Then you watch the rest with a re-framed perspective.
I mean, that was the entire premise of the show, a good person who breaks bad. You are supposed to like him, and supposed to have complicated feelings about his character arc as he devolves deeper and deeper into the dark side. Of course there will be moments during the arc when you still root for him as the badass but that should all be gone by the end, when he’s just a bad guy who got a deserved end.
Eehhhhhh, yes and no. Part of why BB is so good is that Walt is believably bad. Part of it is the slow shift to full wannabe druglord, but another huge part of it is that he is a very flawed person, and shows it very quickly.
Within the first episode, he's very dismissive of Jesse and obviously avoidant with his wife. He lies about things all the time. He demeans Jesse a lot. He quickly demonstrates an inflated ego. His jealousy over the chemical company is very obvious from the start. I'm sure I could remember more.
He's a very not so good person even before all the stuff happens that pushes him further. Sure, he tries to be nice, but so do most bad people. The ones who don't try to be nice end up in trouble or dead.
He also doesn't go full bad in actuality. Sure, he pretends to, and still ends up doing all sorts of bad stuff, but he still wants to give the money to his family, doesn't like killing people/etc.
Basically all of that is to say... Walt's shift in BB is so believable because it's actually not that big of a character shift. Really, the story is a great example of why it's wise to not have a bunch of little bad character traits. lol Sure most bad people aren't going to become drug lords, but most people don't have Saul Goodman as their lawyer getting them off of every little thing.
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That was the entire point of the show. The writers wanted to see if they could get people to root for a villain, if they knew why the villain was bad and if the shift was gradual enough. It’s literally the title; they wanted to break the concept of what people consider “bad”, and see if the audience would go along with it if they felt the reasons were justified.
and he reveals how much more of a piece of shit he really is
That’s the thing though. From many peoples’ perspective, he wasn’t always that piece of shit. It wasn’t “revealing” as much as it was “changing”. He took on aspects of every person he killed, for better or worse. The idolatry was certainly a problem with the fans, but (again) that was the entire point of the show. By the later seasons, even the writers were baffled at how people were still rooting for Walt, because he was inarguably a monster. But because people watched his descent into madness, they were still hoping for him to come out on top.
It’s literally the title; they wanted to break the concept of what people consider “bad”
But it's also just a century-old idiom for what happens to the main character.
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Walt murders a guy and blackmails a former student into cooking meth for him in first episode and then rapes his wife in like the first or second episode of the second season. It always amazes me that people feel like it was somehow a subtle slide into "maybe this dude isn't a good guy?". The show is NOT subtle in its portrayal of the character.
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David Chase has talked about how it frustrated him that people were rooting for Tony like he was the hero, so he kept making him do more fucked up shit. Americans aren’t good at processing anti-heroes. Part of the problem might be that they’re all played by charismatic actors, whereas the megalomaniacs you meet in real life are just assholes.
My younger brother loves Tyler Durden quotes. One in particular "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."
I'm not sure why that one jumps out at him, dude makes more money than me. I do want to say though that hes genuinely a good person in most ways, hes completely surrounded by frothing at the mouth rightwingers but maintains that he is a centrist. And he says stuff that implies left wing and anarchist beliefs but constantly defends rightwing figures when I shit talk them around him. Most notably Joe Rogan.
Hes just badly propagandized and would end up being socially isolated if he started actually identifying as left wing because all of his friends would stop talking to him. And he refuses to move and make new friends. Its depressing.
Sounds like it will only be after he’s lost everything (his friends) that he will be able to do anything (have compassion for others and stop listening to Rogan).
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"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."
This is a pretty common sentiment I believe. Me and Bobby Mcgee came out in 71 with the famous lyric "Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose"
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Oof the world is full of good examples for this. Like the Torment Nexus, in every genre. South Park is another one - there used to be real Cartman fans. Also some thought it was a children's TV show.
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Women and the folk who don't categorize themselves will never understand the deep masculane urge of self destruction. Of going down in a "blaze of glory" even if you're ultimately wrong.
The stereotype of masculinity was always a meme that drove men to destruction. The tribal warriors and knights of ye olde times idealized this type of crap too. It's been a part of humanity ever since writing was invented, probably longer. It's a strange part of being human.
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Friendship with Tim Robinson is the best modern satire on this topic because it actually makes the people who don't get it deeply uncomfortable instead.
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Same with police brutality.
Oh god, I really wish we had the Cyborg Cop from "Ultra Murderous Cyborg Cop 3000 - Extrajudical Massacre" dealing with thiefs!
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