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In Denmark, U.S. lawmakers contradict Trump on Greenland (www.washingtonpost.com)
submitted 5 months ago by silence7@slrpnk.net to c/politics@lemmy.world
40 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Leaders of the bipartisan delegation said most Americans don’t want to acquire the territory, and thousands of Danes joined “Hands-off Greenland” protests.

Americans don't want to conquer Greenland; just Trump those paying bribes (billionaires) or using blackmail (Putin)

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[–] ideonek@piefed.social 40 points 5 months ago (4 children)

You think that we don't trust you anymore because of Trump? That it'll pass with an election? You elected him twice. 2nd time after he was convicted for sexual harassment that in most of our countries would be classified as rape. You are unable to stop him when he breaks international law, you are unable to stop him when he breaks your own law. He abuse every value you pretend to care about and your system is unequiped to prevent this or stop it. He brought treat against your allies, and he brought armed thugs against your citizens. You did nothing when he harassed your students for protesting against genocide and you do nothing now after protestor was killed.

He put the anti-science person in charge of your health. He put a tech-bros in charge of your social security. He pardoned violent offender and covers sex traficers. He blame the victims. And he's still there... He have merch with his 3rd term. And he's still here.

Either there is no will to stop him, or there are no means.

You are accomplice, or you are all victims and your entire system is a dictatorship in disguise. Vulnerable to humors of any madman that happen to be put in charge.

In either case you can't be trusted. Any deal and any promise made in your name - either external or internal, made before, during or after trump - can be broken with the expectation of no repercussion apperently.

How could you - The People - be trusted again?

[–] Bonesince1997@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This is a logical conclusion. The people here don't have the values they pretend to have. Amazingly, all while trashing the rest of the world in a haze of faux superiority.

[–] ideonek@piefed.social 3 points 5 months ago

Or they don't live in the Rule of Law country. And the ideals are actively ad successfully suppressed. Either way its hard to out trust in their institutions.

[–] Auli@lemmy.ca 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

America should never be trusted like it used to be again. As they can flip in a second during an election. They are not a stable partner and I wish the world moves away from them but we won't as we linked our economies to closely to them. And

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Totally valid. This is why we have to deal decisively with MAGA when the opportunity comes around again.

MAGA must be crushed, and purged from our society. The Dems need to IMMEDIATELY declare MAGA to be a serious, ongoing National Security Threat, and ALL MAGA operatives, AND SUPPORTERS, are Domestic Terrorists. We can't do anything about it now, but we can establish those terms and definitions in the minds of the citizens/voters, and when we regain power we can deal with them from a Constitutional, CRIMINAL perspective, not Politics. They are treasonous criminals, and they should be dealt with as such.

The Dems need to have the courage to follow this through, no matter how loud the Right screams. We warned them it would come to this, and they have nobody else to blame other than themselves. Our Nation, the Word, and History deserve it.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

And open votes to good third parties.

[–] logi@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The FPTP voting system doesn't make 3rd parties feasible. You're going to have to reform the two parties or change viting to something more proportional or preference based.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 5 months ago

The parties are irredeemable, but I've spoken about changing the voting system even recently.

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 1 points 5 months ago

A future America will have to address the issue of Campaign Finance Reform, the issue from which ALL issues flow. Along with that will come reforms like Federal funding of elections, and offering a larger voice to third parties and independents.

[–] foggy@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

This is no different from blaming any country's people for the actions of its leaders.

Utterly asinine and the pretext to xenophobia.

Your rhetoric will bite you.

[–] assembly@lemmy.world 20 points 5 months ago (2 children)

As an American I can see their perspective though. In the first Trump admin, we could blame the weirdness of the electoral college process as the majority of the population opted against him. This second term is different though. The majority of the US election participants voted in favor of all of this. At that point, it’s pretty fair to blame the populace for the outcome as the majority of voters actively supported this outcome. I still can’t believe when I overhear folk at restaurants actively in favor of this craziness.

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

The majority of the US election participants voted in favor of all of this.

No, they didn't. It's extremely clear that they cheated in the 2024 election, but the Dems let them off the hook, declaring the election process "Fair & Square" immediately after the polls closed, because winning the election was less important than demonstrating to MAGA what losing gracefully and having a peaceful transfer of power looks, and accompanied by their favorite thing - trademarked Democratic Smugness. They like that better than winning.

As usual, it all came down to the Swing States. He might have won one or two, but he cleared the table, despite not a single poll showing that being possible. The Dems simply accepted that there were MILLIONS of ballots that were straight Democratic tickets, with Trump at the top, and they were ONLY concentrated in these states.

Who votes like that? Does anybody know one? Ever see one on TV? There are millions of them, where are they? They are all concentrated in the Swing States, so they shouldn't be hard to find, but I've never talked to one, seen one, or even heard of one - because they don't exist. The ballots were changed, obviously.

All they had to do was change the result of one race in only seven states, and he openly enlisted the help of two people in control of the most advanced hacking resources on the planet, who both declared that they were committed to a MAGA victory. Despite the obvious fraud, the Dem leadership played right along, and let it happen, just so they wouldn't sound like Trump, screaming non-stop about a stolen election, even though it was TRUE!

Everybody in America knows in their heart that this is all true, even the MAGAs. They are so irredeemable that they'd love to brag about how they stole the election from the Libz, but they can't do that.

When this is over, the Dems should definitely establish the 2024 Election Fraud Scheme, and then declare Trump's second presidency to be invalid. Roll back all legislation, executive orders, policies, etc. Everybody can have their government job back, with back pay and a signing bonus. Those who have moved on should get pack pay, and severance. He used pardons to cover-up his crimes, and solicit bribes, so ALL of his presidential pardons are invalidated, and they all go back to jail, no exceptions.

[–] assembly@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I have to tell you that I want to believe I really do. It would be so much better than accepting that the majority of American voters chose this future. In your view, is it just small modifications in swing states which gave Trump the electoral college or do you believe this impacts total vote count to a degree that it changes the overall majority vote count? What I’m getting at is, do you believe the vote manipulation only delivered the electoral college or do you believe that the majority of voters did indeed vote against trump? For me, if it was just the electoral college, it changes little in my opinion of the state of our country. If it’s the actual majority vote, that shows a path to redemption.

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 2 points 5 months ago

I definitely think it was far beyond the actual vote. They didn't just nudge it enough to game the electoral college, although it's essentially the same thing - win the popular vote, and you get ALL the Electoral votes. So either way, they are disenfranchising the winning margin.

But winning wasn't the ONLY objective. They wanted to smooch his big fat porky ass, so they wanted to deliver the first Republican popular vote winner since 1980. So they went a little crazy, and delivered a ludicrously implausible victory.

Millions of straight Democratic ballots, with Trump at the top.

Concentrated in Swing States.

Multiple hacking teams on the case, by foreign Oligarchs.

As if that isn't adding up for you, add in that he has cheated at literally EVERYTHING in his entire life, and that he absolutely required this victory to avoid a life sentence in Federal prison. Are we to believe that the first time he did ANYTHING without cheating, "Fair & Square," is the one election that would keep him out of a life sentence in prison?

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 points 5 months ago

The Democrats sued in swing states only, to keep De La Cruz off the ballot.

[–] I_Jedi@lemmy.today 9 points 5 months ago

The point still stands that Americans are completely incapable of preventing the rise of another Trump.

Even if Americans are literal angels sent down from heaven, that is independent from the fact that they enable the consistent election of shit leaders.

In other words, individual Americans can be trustworthy, but as a group, they are not. Important distinction.

[–] ideonek@piefed.social 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

People of democratic countries are responsible for action of their leaders, yes. They are the suverein. That's basicly the first statemant in almost every constytutuin on planet. Do you belive in what's writen in yours? If you do, you should take responsibility. An you are not trustworthy until you do.

People of dictatorship are not. Are we ready to admit that that's the case? If you are not the suverain, than you personally probably can be trusted. But your system can't.

You missed the forest for a tree. It's not only about voting outcome. It's about country build on instytutuin that are unable to deal with abuser. If there is nothing that a leader can do that result in him stepping down or being prosecuted, it.is not a democracy.

And if it can be done but you collectively think that that point was not reached yet... Than you should take responsibility.

You are eager to put xenophobic labels on this, missing completly that we were all loyal allays and how many Superman and Capitan America T-shirt I own. You disiapoonted us all.

But OK. Help me fight my bias and and answer me this:

Why should I trust your country?

[–] foggy@lemmy.world -4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

I never said you should trust America. I said you shouldnt judge Americans for America.

Just as you shouldnt judge North Koreans for North Korea, Russians for Russia, etc.

The people of a nation have 0 control of their leaders.

It is definitionally xenophobic.

[–] CircaV@lemmy.ca 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Americans voted for the orange shitgibbon twice. You liked him so much you gave him a second term. He represents you nationally and internationally He IS you.

[–] ideonek@piefed.social 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Than you didn't read what I wrote.

[–] hector@lemmy.today 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I read it, and I found it pig headed, and incorrect. People aren't responsible for their governments neccessarily. If they were we could discrdit every peoples ever, including you now.

[–] ideonek@piefed.social 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Who's the suverain in the USA?

[–] hector@lemmy.today 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No one uses that word, if it is one. But the question appears meaningless in the context of the question, buoyed as you may be by half wits following the flock.

Every single group of people could be discounted blaming them for their government. Every single one, including yours. People are not responsible for other people, it's not about country, or race, it's about class.

[–] ideonek@piefed.social 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign

You don't know who the suverain in the democracy is suppose to be? And you didn't even care about it enought to google it? I see why they can do all of this to you with so little effort now.

[–] hector@lemmy.today 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It is a nonsensical argument, as I laid out. Pigheaded. Unhelpful to anyone other than the ones responsible for your anger in this situation.

[–] ideonek@piefed.social 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Is US a democracy?

[–] hector@lemmy.today 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Democracy is a nebulous word, it's a representative government with severe oligarchic rot. As your country is too I am sure. It could hardly not be.

[–] ideonek@piefed.social 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

So... "No".

Did you miss the other half of the argument? If your country is not ruled by your people than you are not responsible. But you can't be trusted, becouse your system can't be trusted.

And of of course each democracy have problems. But do you even strive to be one? Your entire reaction after learning that your "representative" is planing to betray your allies was "what else is new"?

Did you truly excausted all your options? Truly? If you are opresed and affraid and unable to change it... OK. I get it and its fair. You are not reaponsible, you are a victim. But you should at a very least drop the cavalier atitute about it.

[–] hector@lemmy.today 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

As to the reaction of the president's bullshit being what's new, you are just now realizing it's going to be like this.

I knew it July 2024. I am long passed the other phases of anger and bargaining and the like. 2028 is the only chance, and it's hopeless with the dem establishment leading the opposition and people still trust them somehow.

I do what I can to unseat the establishment that is doomed to fail, and it earns me nothing but grief. I know it won't work but I try anyway because I have to. I don't know what you expect us to do.

[–] ideonek@piefed.social 1 points 5 months ago

And what did you acctualy do since july 2024? At minimum I expect you to put political and economical pressure trough consumer chooces, every institutional path at your disposal and civil disobedience.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 5 months ago

Why would anyone trust anything a US politician says, or even signs?

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 3 points 5 months ago

There are less than 10 people on the planet who think this is a good idea, and it isn't even for a good reason, they just want to keep Trump happy so they continue to manipulate him like a marionette.