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I'm sorry but this is not what makes me laugh. I think this is what is broken in the relationships. I mean why women has to be the passive role every single time? It's like im not ugly, and actually when I talk with them It goes well. My critic is why I have to start every single fckng time?
Uh... have you been around for the last thirty or so years? Apparently accosting women is harassment these days, so it's less hassle to wait for women to do the first step, I guess.
Wow. You just made me realize accosting has a completely different definition than I thought for the past 25 years. God damn it that's upsetting.
You made me check and apparently it's a bit more aggressive in English than in French. Now I'm curious what you thought it meant.
Because women are in higher demand than men. That's the sad truth. Women do make the first move, maybe more than you realize, but they all tend to go for the same top 1% of men. If you aren't that, then you've gotta do some work, either to chase them or to become the top 1% that they chase. It's a sad reality but that's what it is.
I don't know if everyone has been paying attention to how things are trending and extrapolating, but the fact is a ton of men are looking at that scenario and saying, "eh I'm just done, I'm gonna stay home and enjoy the peace and quiet while it lasts. Less risky."
If that works for them then they can do that. I think if most left the house and tried chasing girls IRL rather than online that they'd be pretty successful once they practiced a bit. As an older man, young women seem a lot more thirsty than they ever were when I was young.
A lot of men think differently than women about relationships though. A lot of men would:
Fundamentally know they would be happiest with a woman who respects them and treats them softly and with love and treats the relationship as a partnership.
Concurrently, they would be happy to accept sex if it were freely offered with no risks (but there ARE very clear risks that sometimes make them balk at sex even being worth that anyway).
They believe that past behavior predicts future behavior. They see women that they would sleep with but never marry.
End result: the men willing to take the risk sleep with all the women they want to. Women all sleep with that shared small group of men. Those men don't commit, they have all the sex they want and never intended to commit. The men that would have committed were friend zoned, turned down, or ignored, took that at face value as they are not valued or in demand. Ultimately choose a peaceful life as a hermit enjoying whatever they can find happiness in. Hobbies, games, friends, etc.
Is selection bias a term or did I just make that up? Perhaps women get an incomplete understanding of men because they only interact with the men they choose to interact with. At minimum I know confirmation bias definitely comes into play with all these social interactions and assumptions. And men get an incomplete picture of women just from sheer lack of exposure. They only know what they see using what limited means of remote study. Social media, news, anecdotes from each other, etc.
men are discouraged from approaching women and women dont want to show their interest in clear way. How have we not gone extinct yet?
Because the internet isn’t real life and plenty of people know how to talk to people, including those of the opposite sex.
That isn't as true as you think. Communication is often the weakest part of any relationship (romantic, platonic, professional).
Everyone has their own language and very few people are willing to adapt to someone else's way of communicating, even when that effort should be mutual.
I think that's true today. When I was younger it def felt like people, of any gender, were more willing to try and understand other people. Like, people used to ask me what I like to do and why I like it... now they ask me what I like to do and tell me I'm an idiot for liking something that isn't the same as what they like.
Fun story: this guy I know on my gaming Facebook group would complain about being single. This was an older men's group/dad group. He'd repeat whatever the manosphere would say and ask for validation, and we (usually married dudes) usually say things like, "Yeah man dating is hard" and "women give mix signals".
Finally, mods called out how his last 10+ posts were complaining and his shitty attitude is just sucking the energy out of the group. They warned him that if he kept it up, they'd ban him from the group until he fixed his behavior.
Fast forward to today - he's telling us about his new girlfriend he met on NYE and how they had a amazing valentines. He shared how after that post, he took a long look at himself and stopped sabotaging himself.
let me see: 99.9% of interactions man-woman are started by man right?
We are on the way. sex and relationship rates are massively declining for Gen Z.
I have four newphews 16-20. they have all dated. all but one of them has already sworn off dating because they think it's total bullshit and they thought it was miserable and no fun to have a girlfriend, for the very same reasons, I also am frustrated with dating and relationships in my 40s. It's insane. It took me 30+ years of dating to get fed up, they were fed up in 1-2 years.
And all of us agree the issue is women's expectations they get from social media. My 17 year old nephew broke up with his gf because he got her flowers and she complained they were not $200+ that he was a 'low effort' boyfriend and all her friends dog-piled in group chat and agreed. He's 17 and he makes 15 bikes an hour part time...
Like why would any sane person want to subject themselves to group harassment from multiple women for the 'sin' of not being able to buy her absurdly expensive flowers? In my situation, I take women out on $100-200 dinner takes and get told that I'm a 'loser' for not taking her out to a $1000 restaurant on our 3rd date. It's INSANE.
None of that happened 10 years ago. If I took a woman out to a $100 restaurant 10 years ago she was STOKED. Now the refrain on the news is 'men are not good enough for women and women are giving up'. Without acknowledging the changes in women's expectations for men due to their addiction to social media and constant consumption of 'lifestyle' influences.
All anyone blames is the manosphere... and how evil that is. But really it's both sexes that are swept up in these toxic sexist expectations that are making both of them miserable and lonely and unable to connect with other people.
It's not new. My cousin constantly argued with her boyfriend 20-25 years ago because she believed she deserved to be taken out to $200 dinners on a regular basis, and he only ever wanted to go to McDonald's.
Won't be long til they can compromise on that one with the way things are going.
Damn.
15 bikes an hour is really fucking impressive, no what what kind of bikes.
I guess it's a blessing in disguise because now it will be easier to detect people who are not worth dating
Aside from a lot of guys being thickheaded and not seeing it, there's also selection bias.
A) A girl has a crush on a guy. He notices but plays it safe. Maybe she's just friendly. Result: no harm done except perpetuating the myth that guys don't notice.
B) A girl is just friendly but the guy thinks he's being crushed on and acts on it. Now he's forever labeled as a creep.
The only safe play as a guy is always, always assuming she's just being friendly. Unless she comes right out and says she wants to hump your bones, just assume she's being nice to you.
This makes me think of a conversation between my wife and daughter a while back.
Daughter is angry with her BF and frustrated that he seems oblivious to that
Wife: "Oh honey, no. It doesn't work like that. If I'm mad at your dad for something I just have to tell him. If he asks if I'm OK and I say, 'I'm fine', he takes that at face value. He's very literal."
Daughter: "Ugh. Doesn't that frustrate you?"
Wife: "It was weird at first but once you get used to it it's actually really nice. You just have to learn to talk to him."
Me: "Wait, I did something right?"
Wife: "You do lots of things right babe."
Yeah, I think she likes me.
Yeah, I think she likes me.
Mmmm, can't be so sure. Better play it safe and look for more signs
I think a lot of people need to learn to communicate more explicitly. There's also the ask culture vs guess culture dynamic, though I think it can extend past culture and some people lean one way or the other. There's also the idea that guess culture is feminine coded in America and ask culture is masculine coded.
To a guess culture, outright stating your desires is imposing. You hint and if they're willing to give it they offer. Furthermore saying no to a direct request is also seen as rude. In general directness is bad, preemptive offering is proper (and obviously they have to reject for fear of imposing), and hinting is acceptable. Think stereotypes of English culture. It's a stupid social dance that I instinctively fall into. To an ask culture all that's stupid, there's nothing wrong with asking for something and it's not problem to say no. It's direct and blunt. Think stereotypes of American culture.
It's generally quite good to be able to navigate and accommodate both, but as a guesser, asking is better as a default, especially in relationships. It's awkward and difficult to learn, but it takes all the guesswork and ambiguity out.
Hint all you want, the decent among us will still be terrified of looking creepy. Just tell us!
Why are women even taught/expected to behave like sneaky spies when it comes to romance? "Ok, time to do my personal hair signal that I'm interested and want him to approach"
I imagine, it has also manifested in our culture for women to exert an abundance of caution and to try to gauge reactions as long as possible, because playing it entirely open can lead to the man developing feelings, and if you then have to break things off, it can get ugly. Some men, even if it is just a tiny fraction, may then turn to violence and rape.
In particular, the men may "blame" you for their feelings and they might feel """justified""" in raping you, because you did tell them that you find them attractive. No, none of this makes sense and I'd need to order another bucket of quotation marks, if I wanted to try to continue making sense of it, which I don't, so let's not do that.
Yes, the same can happen with the genders reversed, but typically the men are physically stronger, which is why this power dynamic made it into our culture, at least according to my pet theory here.
Being clear about your desire also means that rejection is clear, and that hurts.
A lot of the time we do know, but we're terrified of getting it wrong and getting rejected and maybe worse.
A girl told me in 8th grade that she knew I liked her, and was cool with it. I thought she was nice for not being creeped out that I liked her, until one day on college when I finally realized what she meant.