Political Memes

Check out the crabs in the bucket.

Extra time off isn't some kind of reward for having kids, it's to make having kids possible. We'll be old someday and we'll need those kids to support us. Give parents all the time off they want. Imagine the kind of guy who sees a new mom get time off work to take care of a literal shit machine and thinks "She's the one who decided to excrete a crotch goblin. I should get the same amount of time off work as she does so I can play more Elden Ring." Then imagine how that guy smells.

Easy. Companies themselves should not care about the employees families. They have no benefit from a person having children. Governments should very much care about people having children. All benefits - if any, should be decided on the goverment level. And companies will have to adhere to the law. Firms chase their own benefits. The goverment (should) work for the benefit (and future) of all citizens.

monkey's paw / evil genie / etc:

Wish granted. All employees - with or without children - will now be treated badly and given no flexibility

No because they have different needs. Society should focus on providing people based on their needs, not how much they produce. Only a slave bases his worth on his productivity.

Caring the reason why someone needs flex time is a bullshit thing.

People saying that kids are important to society so we should allow parents extra flexibility, it rests on the assumption that what non parents would be doing with that flexible is less important to society. What if I'm giving blood, or helping an elderly parent, or volunteering at a homeless shelter? It's hardly the employers role to judge pass judgement on what is a worthwhile use of time.

This one is wildly different between Europe and the US context.

ITT: people pretending others "cheese" some unfair advantages by having kids when having kids is almost always a net negative in terms of time, money, career opportunities and so much more.

People who choose not to have kids do so for a reason, don't pretend these factors don't exist for parents. As a society we need a next generation, how would you ever retire otherwise? Because of this we should support parents, not envy them for whatever small benefits they get to slightly offset all the disadvantages and are often absolutely necessary to allow them to raise kids.

As a haver of kids: Sure, why not? I'll take some smoke breaks as a non-smoker, too. I'm saying this unironically or whatever by the way, that second part isn't supposed to be a gotcha or anything. I'm also a worker in the US so I'm biased, used to workplaces that go the extra mile to try and squeeze every ounce of both productivity and humanity out of you. Give everyone all the flexibilities!

Rule: if your company sets you up against your colleagues because you xor they have children, it's time for a strike or time to quit

I'm fine with people with dependents getting higher priority. If you have one pill, one sick person, and one healthy person, you don't give each of them half a pill for equality sake. https://welleatyouupweloveyouso.com/2023/08/14/what-does-equity-and-equality-have-to-do-with-being-spoiled/

But, also, society in general and employers in specific should strive to provide a level of flexibility to all employees where all of them find joy in their lives.

I agree in principle, and do sometimes get mildly annoyed having to cover for people because they are out due to parental obligations, but overall I really don't mind or care that much. I've had to do it a number of times now and sometimes it can be very stressful but that's why I get paid. Being a parent sucks so I feel bad for them having to put up with all the bullshit, it's not like they are off having fun when they can't be at work because their kid is shitting uncontrollably with a high fever or whatever nightmare is going on. Not having kids is great, the occasional extra work or responsibilities that comes with being more reliable than coworkers with kids is the tiniest of tradeoffs for me. Maybe it helps that I like my coworkers and am happy they get to be responsible parents. Additionally, if your boss or someone higher up is out on extended parental leave it can be beneficial to your career if you fill in for them and get some time working "above your station" because your org gets forced into it. I know it was for me early in my career.

I hate to be the person thats is all like "as a parent...", however - to me having to leave early, come in late or take a day off to deal with kids being sick, appointments or just daycare/school drop off/pickup is worse.
The premise of this feels like "smokers get a break so why shouldnt we?". But realistically my work is still there, i am stressed about the thing i havent done that should/needed to be done that day, the amount of work i now have to catch up on and the extra stress of trying to get the 'non-work' things done as quickly as possible so i can be back at work to get through my workload.
And ontop of that, you likely had to cut your work time short because your kid is sick or hurt and you are also stressed about that, its not like you jump in your car and start whistling to the radio heading home early.

So yes, i think a non-parent should have just as much flexibility as a parent, but thats a conversation to have with your boss and not some guilt you try saddle on parents when they cant be at their workplace for their full X-hours per day. I would never make a coworker feel guilty because they left half an hour early a couple days per week to go like practice for their sport or hobby or something, so afford the same respect for someone who has 'child commitments' instead of your 'leisure commitments' because they arent the ones saying you cant take time off too.

Four day weekends for everyone, and three months of vacation time too.

Yes. Flexibility for everyone. Unironically, this is not a bad idea.

Classic equality/equity debate.

The long and short of it is, having children is not merely a personal benefit to the parent, it's a critical and necessary part of any functioning society. The proof is simply that you and everyone else owe your existence to your/their parents.

The burden of this task falls on the shoulders of parents. It's about as much work as a full time job.

Think of it as paying it forward for your parents and your own childhood. Maybe put aside the individualism that is rotting modern society from the inside out.

Mostly I agree. I have no kids and won't (vasectomy), and I'm a bit on the antinatalist side. Not so far in that I think people should never have kids. But reproducing at the rate we do is unsustainable and thus unethical. So there's a bias there.

I do think maternity and paternity leave should be given. And some grace should be allowed for small things. Like having to come in a little late or leave a little early for having to pick up/drop off kids, that kind of thing. To a point. If it's causing more than a minor burden to coworkers, then that's a problem.

But getting preference in scheduling, time off, etc? I don't agree with that. I shouldn't get the short end of the stick because they have a kid.

Edit: In reading some of the other comments, I saw a common sentiment which I'll sum up as "don't blame the parent, blame the system" which I can agree with.

I also had a "chose to breed" line in my last paragraph. I softened the language there, because it's not always a choice.

I don't think this is controversial. It's all about the ratios. And this says a lot about your work condition. I got 27 days off annually. Before my child was born I had 26. It's not a game changer... If all my childless coworkers got an extra day off I probably wouldn't even notice. So sure thay should have it, whatever. You Americans can argue about the weirdest things sometimes.

Yep. And that mean that everyone shall have the time and confort to rise a child. And then choose to do it or not. Fuck the bosses

Those who take the responsibility of caring for society's newest members should be given more leeway/support in many areas, not just employment. I don't have kids (yet, God willing), I'm just not unempathetic/extremely self-centered/nihilistic. We do live in a society, after all.

Simple solution: lie and say you have kids