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this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2026
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https://truthout.org/articles/42-house-democrats-join-gop-in-passing-warrantless-mass-surveillance-bill/
Welp, guess we're just fucked then
Section 702 isn't a mass surveillance program. It has its problems (the main sticking point being that the surveilled non-Americans living outside the US communicating with other non-Americans outside the US might discuss Americans or forward communications from Americans, and now Americans' data is collected), but let's at least accurately describe the law being discussed.
Good thing the government doesn't have a history of overreaching with powers that we give them to abuse the rights of non-Americans.
42 out of 212.
What a lot of liberals don't get about leftists criticizing the Democrats is that it isn't "both sides are bad". We criticize them because they're lauded as saviors of the common people due to their occasional, surface level platitudes and vague gestures toward "progress". Meanwhile, 20% of the Democrats in the house just fucking pimped us out to the surveillance state (for like the 500th time) and nobodys taking about it. The only thing you had to say about it was "well it wasnt ALL of them"
Y'all get defensive because deep down you know the Democrats are never going to save us or even stem the tide, but they're the systems "solution" to the fascist problem so bygolly were just gonna keep "voting blue no matter who" until the country is """"fixed"""" again. It's a narrow, misinformed, and foolish perspective that deprioritizes everything but elections and tribalism.
I can't speak for every leftist, but the ones I know and the spaces I run in outside of this godforsaken site don't want to talk about the Democrats, they don't want to talk electoral politics, they don't want to both sides every little thing. But most liberals only seem to be capable of seeing politics through the party system, so we're left having the conversation on your terms, which inevitably turns to criticism of the Democrats and y'all being a bunch of fucking crybullies about the slightest, most surface level critique of the party. Electoralism is a distraction, and we're all falling for it.
I'm not saying don't vote. I'm saying your mind is made up already, you know how you're gonna vote, you know that your options are terrible, you know why you won't be voting for the other side, you know what the fascists are up to. Why are we wasting so much energy chirping at each other when we could be active in the streets, supporting our communities, and building alternative systems that sidestep the two party system entirely? Why aren't we talking about those things? Why aren't we doing them? Plenty of people already are, we're just ~~waiting for~~ pleading with the libs to get the fucking hint and actually do something for once
Fucking AMEN. This should be the highest comment in the thread.
I'm not a liberal, I'm a consequentialist. Electoral politics are gravely consequential. Non-consequentialists are a vile evil.
Yes, leftists like yourself absolutely do. This is just a lie.
Liberals laud them maybe. Not electoral leftists or consequentialist leftists.
We'll never be saved by anyone.
What flawed lesser evils provide is an opportunity. Throwing away a chance because its not a glorious revolutionary act is so painfully and aggressively stupid.
That's because they're content to not pay attention to the suffering of the wider world outside their immediate communities, unless its Palestine.
If electoralism was immaterial or jsut a distraction, the republicans would not be trying to rig it in their favor at every turn.
Sure buddy. You only wrote all of this anti-electoralism to say that it makes perfect sense to vote.
I wasn't doing that before November 2024 because I knew that trying to convince you to vote for Harris in this way was a lost cause and would just harden you further because of psychological petulance. Now I just intensely resent you. It no longer matters, we are fucked. You can go ahead and not vote now I legitimately do not give a fuck.
I don't want to cooperate with someone who actively advocates for making things worse for me. THEY ARE MY ENEMY.
Again, not a lib, but I don't owe you types fucking anything. I was enthusiastic to do things anyway. I did volunteer and help. I canvassed. I protested. I risked my job. I donated. I volunteered at a food pantry. I have my current job in non-profit work because I wanted to help my community.
Especially after November 2024 however, there is a voice in my head that tells me "fuck these stupid fuckers, they don't deserve my help. They want to drag me into the mud so I'll get a fire in me to fight and then I'll just get shot by a cop or a brownshirt, forgotten in a mass of angry people. Fucking assholes."
If you are content to let things get worse so people will become motivated to risk their lives for your revolutionary project, you are an evil manipulative asshole. You and your comrades deserve to be hated and reviled.
Based comment right here.
I was gonna hammer something similar out as a comment when I saw their comment in my notifications this morning but then saw yours. Thank you for jumping in with your reply.
Too many people let perfect be the enemy of better. Democrats aren't perfect, but they are objectively better than the republicans.
And if we want better candidates (which we do) we need to participate in local elections and push for better candidates. My local congressional rep has been turning out to be a shit ton like Kyrsten Sinema and right now there's a decent amount of people locally getting support for someone further left to replace them. When my local rep was elected they were the best candidate, now we're trying to get a better person in.
Local political participation is important.
Jesus, by who?? All I see is (here and in other social media) "at least they won't put us in gulags and threaten the use of nuclear weapon against our own allies".
What's the alternative?
vOtE bLuE nO mAtTeR wHo
I love it when someone says that democrats aren't as bad as republicans someone will inevitably jump in with the stupidest interpretation of it.
Advocate for better candidates in your local elections, get some better people in. And hopefully we can bring those shitty numbers down dramatically.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of better.
Don't worry, I vote in the primaries.
I just won't vote for shit in the general.
You should, even if just to keep the worst option from taking the win.
I don't want the worst possible candidate to have an easier time winning.
No raindrop thinks it's responsible for the flood.
You've already reached worst when you vote for genocide
In a 2 party system, the most marginal voter is the one who determines policy.
The reason the Dems run Bush republicans now is because they assume the left will vote for them, so there's no downside in their mind to tacking as far possible to the right, after that mythical creature the moderate Republican. It's always why the hysterics at any suggestion that Democratic voters not take whatever dogshit candidate is anointed.
2024 showed that isn't a safe assumption to make, as voters just didn't show up, but they seem determined not to apply it - the current leadership I believe would prefer a permanent minority over a majority with the left.
So it's better to openly make the very real threat - if you don't give at the very least progressive candidates in the general, you will lose. If you don't hold open and fair primaries, you will lose.
BUT DON'T YOU SEE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME